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Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

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Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#51

Post by dbspin »

Mirioron wrote: post #34
perfmode wrote: post #15

what is it about collective action that triggers contempt so quickly and automatically for those attempting to organize? many comments in this thread show contempt for the organizers in a way that is readily visible.

Because the resuls of collective action isn't always fair for society. Many countries have an HDD/CD/DVD tax, because of (basically) collective action by artists. I don't see this as being fair. Why do I have to pay more when buying a HDD so that artists I'm never ever going to listen to can get more money? I understand that collective action is often beneficial, but these bad examples are enough to make me annoyed a…

This is a weak argument. Copyright collection agencies don't represent artists. Occasionally they have a few extremely high earning media personalities (notably Metalica back in the Napster days), but these kind of organisations don't represent musicians. Organisations of movie producers / TV producers like the MPAA have even less of a claim to any kind of artist representation. They're large media conglomerates, not artists unions.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#52

Post by wtetzner »

peter_l_downs wrote: post #29
anon1m0us wrote: post #9

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

You know, a lot of the amazing parts of the internet that people reminisce about are still there. The things that _have_ disappeared are often not technically complex or expensive to reproduce. Defeatism is boring, start building things and telling your friends about them.

I think the biggest change is that you can't easily find the good parts of the internet through Google anymore.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#53

Post by msla »

hirundo wrote: post #49
chillacy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ebay? The flea market of the internet? You disregard ebay but ebay actually has economic alignment with its sellers. The buyer experience isn't as good as Amazon's, but the seller experience is better in that you can control your destiny more. But this apparently makes it a flea market? There's going to be a tradeoff between curation and producer freedom. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Apparently you took the flea market comparison as disparaging and it was intended that way. Why? What's wrong with flea markets? I shop there regularly and have sold there many times. I usually get great deals there on either side of the transaction. I can say the same about Ebay. For Ebay to be a kind of vast internet flea market seems like a good thing.

> Why? What's wrong with flea markets?

Low-quality goods and the increased possibility of scams.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#54

Post by wtetzner »

avocado4 wrote: post #40
anon1m0us wrote: post #9

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

> What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. You can post digital content on multiple platforms at the same time.

But that doesn't do as much to put pressure on YouTube.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#56

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

perfmode wrote: post #15

what is it about collective action that triggers contempt so quickly and automatically for those attempting to organize? many comments in this thread show contempt for the organizers in a way that is readily visible.

Contempt isn't fair, but neither is calling this effort "collective action". The impetus for Youtube to care isn't that the organizers represent lots of people producing lots of value for Google. It's that they run an unrelated metalworkers union, so they have "deep pockets and army of lawyers", and they'll use those resources to hurt Youtube if their demands aren't met.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#57

Post by crdoconnor »

onemoresoop wrote: post #44

Did anyone ever thought of creating an external index of youtube videos so the recommendations are open source and aren't controlled by Youtube? Basically a table with links and other metadata

Doesn't seem like it would be easy without a firehose of metadata and I doubt Google would be amenable to providing that for a competing service.

At this point to enable that kind of competition would have to have legislative protection (e.g. a law similar to the UK one mandating banks/gas/electric companies have to provide APIs).

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#58

Post by vangelis »

chillacy wrote: post #30
anon1m0us wrote: post #9

What they should do is collectively take their content somewhere else. As an aside, I'm seeing the same pattern at Amazon. People thought they were opening a business on amazon selling retail. Then amazon started selling the profitable products themselves, storing the products themselves, ... basically doing more and more of the work and taking more control and taking money from the people who helped them become powe…

> Ebay? The flea market of the internet? You disregard ebay but ebay actually has economic alignment with its sellers. The buyer experience isn't as good as Amazon's, but the seller experience is better in that you can control your destiny more. But this apparently makes it a flea market? There's going to be a tradeoff between curation and producer freedom. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Ebay is the real long tail of selling anyways. I can almost always find the obscure thing I'm looking for.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#59

Post by programmarchy »

callalex wrote: post #41

I wonder why the Screen Actors Guild (SAG) hasn't weighed in on this whole sector at all. The exploitation of entertainers is not exactly a new issue, and it has been tackled by existing unions before.

They are probably on the other side of the issue. YouTube independent creators are in competition with Hollywood and big media.

Re: Watch Out Google, YouTubers Are Unionizing

#60

Post by noxToken »

bootlooped wrote: post #19
bluedino wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all the content creators stopped...I'd have a lot of YouTube content to watch still. It's not like when the factory stops because the workers strike, or there are no sports game because the players walked out. There's more youtube than I know what to do with no matter what.

There is probably a demographic of YouTube viewers who skew towards watching fresh content from their favorite content creators. YouTube would probably see reduced engagement from them due to a strike. I'm not sure what percent of total views they account for though.

Their algorithm change really killed the recommendation engine for me. I don't mind new content for channels I'm subscribed to. I don't mind similar content to channels I'm subscribed to. I don't like revisiting YouTube after 3, 5, and 10 days later to see the same 3 videos recommended at the top. I don't want to watch a single video of prolific channel and then have their uploads clog my feed.

I want to explore. I want stuff that's familiar, similar and also unrelated that I would potentially like. Their "related" stuff is always so similar that it falls into "more of the same". You used to be able to explore without entering search terms via trending and categories, but the same channels and types of videos dominate those avenues. If you don't like the type of stuff there, you'll spend a lot of time being disappointed for maybe one video that was alright.

It's ok to recommend more of the same, but give me a way to see stuff that isn't the same.

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