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Debunking the Google Interview Myth

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Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. It's a trivia question. Nobody uses such techniques any more because looking at raw memory dumps is not the right way to debug these days.

If the candidate is bragging about the time he saved the day with raw memory debugging, I'd start with this question to confirm.

@strlen Again, some of the questions are absolutely 100% FAKE.

So if some questions (like the "why are manhole covers round") are definitely fake, and others seem very weird (like the dead beef one), isn't is more likely that that question is fake too?

Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#32
post #31
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the candidate is bragging about the time he saved the day with raw memory debugging, I'd start with this question to confirm.

@strlen Again, some of the questions are absolutely 100% FAKE. So if some questions (like the "why are manhole covers round") are definitely fake, and others seem very weird (like the dead beef one), isn't is more likely that that question is fake too?

> So if some questions (like the "why are manhole covers round") are definitely fake, and others seem very weird (like the dead beef one), isn't is more likely that that question is fake too?

It may sound fake to you, for a specific team you interviewed people for. But, it's an entirely reasonable question to ask for someone who claims low-level experience for a team that actually does low-level work. Use a product your ex-employer has built to search for '0xdeadbeef' and you'll see this technique is not just a piece of esoterica.

There are many kinds of software engineers: a low-level hacker may just be as puzzled by "support vector machines" (why do they need our support?!) as you are by 0xdeadbeef.

[Edit: last point is why lists like this are meaningless. This question likely gets asked by teams who do low-level work, other questions get asked by teams who do machine learning, etc...]

Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#33
post #18

I wonder about the technical knowledge of this person who's writing articles about hiring technical people. "Explain the significance of ‘dead beef'" is a perfectly valid, if somewhat unimaginative, technical question.

No, it's not. It's a trivia question. Nobody uses such techniques any more because looking at raw memory dumps is not the right way to debug these days.

The "right way" depends on the task at hand and the tools you have at your disposal. For any type of low-level work, being able to view, understand, and observe regions of memory is pretty much essential.

Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#36

Google's online application asks for your SAT scores. That always struck me as odd.

where is that? I see GPA but no SAT request, even if you apply as a current student/new grad: http://www.google.com/jobs/application/

I seem to recall that being on a questionnaire they send you after you submit an application.

Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#37
post #2

Coding on the spot might seem surprising to those outside of the software industry, but it’s standard practice. Sounds like wishful thinking to me. At least I wish it were true. I've been involved in a lot of interviews at my company, and I'm the only one who ever asks anyone to write code.

I was asked to write very little code for my current position. One of the questions was being presented with some code and figuring out what it did. I didn't realize how apropos that question was at the time.

I just got done doing a series of 10 1-hour interviews for contractors for an enterprise Java web application contract lasting about 6 months. Only 2-3 of them could write correct Java on a white board for simple questions. We had three who weren't even close to Java syntax. Code quality seemed to be directly relational to algorithm quality, in that those with better syntax also knew how to solve the algorithms best, and those with terrible syntax were way off on the algorithms.

Up until we asked these candidates to write code on the board, a few of them sounded like great hires. They could rattle on about design decisions and enterprise web application stacks, about configuration and organization. But when it came to the white board at least one of them just stood there and left it mostly blank.

Some of the positions here have had interviews where the candidate is expected to write code but only one, if even that, interviewer asked to see any code. And even then the managers don't seem too worried when I tell them the person can't code, because everyone else likes them so much.

Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#38

Google's online application asks for your SAT scores. That always struck me as odd.

where is that? I see GPA but no SAT request, even if you apply as a current student/new grad: http://www.google.com/jobs/application/

I just went through the application process (declined by committee) over the last two months and the application did have a space for GPA, but I was never asked about SAT or GRE scores as far as I can remember.

Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#39
post #15
post #2

Coding on the spot might seem surprising to those outside of the software industry, but it’s standard practice. Sounds like wishful thinking to me. At least I wish it were true. I've been involved in a lot of interviews at my company, and I'm the only one who ever asks anyone to write code.

If you can comment, I would be interested on the standard of coding that successful candidates exhibit once employed. Personally, if I could only ask a candidate one question, it would be something that involved writing code. Too many times I've seen candidates with impressive resumes, technical knowledge, or conversation skills, fail miserably to implement trivial (e.g. stricmp) functions.

If you can comment, I would be interested on the standard of coding that successful candidates exhibit once employed.

Good ones write good code; the ones we shouldn't have hired write poor code or don't code at all. As for how to tell the difference, I pay a lot of attention to candidates' questions, comments, and attitude while writing code. That part carries over pretty directly to how they do their real job and how pleasant they are to work with. As for quality of code, my rough impression is that the more meaningful details they take care of in their whiteboard code, the more productive they are. Getting syntax and library function names right or wrong doesn't tell you much (except how recently they wrote code that used that syntax or those functions) but getting other details right does matter.

Which details matter is a matter of judgment. My attitude is that some errors are trivial but should be corrected if attention is called to them. For example, off-by-one errors in array indices are easy to miss on a whiteboard if they only affect one line of code or just make the output a little incorrect -- that's no big deal -- but when a candidate gets stuck or confused because of an off-by-one error he made a few lines up, he should be able to figure it out, correct the error, and correct any related errors.

Good things to watch out for (besides asking good questions to make sure the problem is well specified):

1. The candidate doesn't start writing a complete solution without having a decent idea where it's going. If he doesn't see a solution immediately, he takes some time to understand the problem, possibly working an example by hand, sketching out possible solutions, or talking through the problem verbally.

2. The candidate draws logical inferences about his own code. "Oops, this function signature is wrong, because in these two cases the same arguments are passed, but the output needs to be different. I need to pass in more information."

3. If the candidate takes the wrong path, he backs up as far as necessary to get back on the right track. He reminds himself of the problem statement and reevaluates his decisions up to that point.

Bad things to watch out for (besides having a bad attitude or failing to ask questions):

1. The candidate launches right into coding a solution without understanding how the problem can be solved. (Those candidates usually end up boxing themselves in, so they really better be good at backing up and starting fresh.)

2. The candidate spends a long time trying to impossible code, such as trying to implement the body of a function when the arguments he has specified for it don't contain enough information.

3. If the candidate takes the wrong path, he doesn't back up far enough to recover. For example, he doesn't question anything he decided more than five minutes ago, so he starts to treat his initial steps in solving the problem as if they were part of the problem statement. (I have seen the opposite mistake also, where a candidate encounters a problem that is clearly local to a small part of his code, but he interprets it as invalidating his whole approach. That mistake is usually just a mistake; people are going to make mistakes under pressure. It doesn't show a lack of intellectual flexibility like the opposite behavior. Depending on the circumstances I might interpret it as a lack of persistence, but usually not.)

Re: Debunking the Google Interview Myth

#40

From anecdotal but first-hand experience (went through a couple of interview rounds), Google interviewers indeed don't ask the questions on that list. But the questions they do ask are hard and often academic - as in, you have likely never run into them in a real-world scenario before and you likely never will. At first I was like 'wow, Google must be populated with demi-gods'. Then I spoke to some Googlers off the r…

probing you about stuff that even at Google's you won't be working on 5% of the time (if at all). In any highly skilled profession, 95% of the time someone with very little of your skill could do your job. The valuable part is that you can also be counted on for that 5% as well. Most of my time at Google hasn't involved any substantial theoretical work. One time though, I did have to come up with a algorithm for comp…

I'd like to believe this story (haven't found an authoritative source yet) that I heard once from a professional speaker of the FedEx main processing facility in Memphis.

One day it completely stopped dead - usually it is controlled mayhem with the packages and machines running - the silence was deafening - thousands of dollars lost every minute. They brought in the best expert they could find. He investigated and went to a single box in the plant, opened a door, and turned one bolt with a wrench and everything restarted. The plant came back to life. He sent them a bill for $10,000. When FedEx protested the bill - "You just turned a single bolt! Anyone could have done that" - he itemized it and sent it back. They paid him.

  Turning a bolt                $    1
  Knowing which bolt to turn    $9,999
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