How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem

#21

Post by chowchowchow » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

jriot wrote: post #19

chowchowchow wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a good example. Ben Carson ran for president himself.

Yes, as I stated, but then realized he was above his level and dropped out.

He realized nobody was going to vote for him and dropped out. Why, out of all possible examples, would you choose someone organizing a campaign and running for president and then dropping out when their polls were low as an example of intellectual humility? I'd say literally every doctor who doesn't choose to run for president is a better example.

Re: How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem

#22

Post by redis_mlc » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 12:45 AM UTC

codesushi42 wrote: post #11

tlb wrote: post #6

"people who thought Ukraine was located in Latin America or Australia were the most enthusiastic about using military force there" How does that happen? I can see a shoddily educated person mixing it up with a neighboring country, but to not even realize that it's in Eastern Europe? I can't remember seeing a poll presented in this format, but it'd be interesting to see results for any political question presented as…

Not surprising and completely believable. Anecdotal, but the nightly news had a segment where they went into an inner city highschool and none of the students knew Poland was a real country.

> none of the students knew Poland was a real country.

The punchline is that Russians and Germans still don't believe that. :)

Re: How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem

#23

Post by memmcgee » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 1:00 AM UTC

I think part of this is many of the "experts" people see on TV are not experts at all, they're ideolouges or idiots (and sometimes both).

Re: How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem

#24

Post by Smithalicious » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 1:25 AM UTC

memmcgee wrote: post #23

I think part of this is many of the "experts" people see on TV are not experts at all, they're ideolouges or idiots (and sometimes both).

You can be both of those and still be an expert

Re: How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem

#25

Post by Smithalicious » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 1:30 AM UTC

codesushi42 wrote: post #9

Isamu wrote: post #4

Another thing that people do is to "see" patterns in random data, and perceive "trends" from anecdotal experience that aren't necessarily happening. America never had faith in expertise, that's just your younger self being blessedly unaware of people around you.

True to some extent. But America used to have standards, at least. Now look at who is President. There are clear signs that America is far stupider than it ever has been, and we are barreling towards becoming a third world country. The Chinese will inherit the planet.

America dumb[0]

[0] source: orange man bad

Re: How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem

#26

Post by jwillie » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

What an elitest pile of stinky!

Woe is me, the expert, because all the non-experts don't trust me. Rather than address why that is, the elitest expert condemns the non-elitest commoners and worries that it portends the end of, or at least a "giant problem" for, (elitest-controlled) society.

Trust us you must, he argues, because you know too little to make decisions for yourselves.

Has he ever stopped to consider how juries operate without "experts"? Or basic infantry platoons, or thousands of small businesses, or small towns - none of which operate on the basis of experts/expertise?

Re: How America Lost Faith in Expertise and Why That's a Giant Problem

#27

Post by cafard » Wed, Aug 14, 2019, 3:49 PM UTC

Is it a new problem? Last night, I had a look at George Kennan's memoirs 1950-1963. He discussed the congressional move to remove most-favored-nation status from Yugoslavia at the time he was ambassador there. He laid out cogent arguments against it. The congressman Wilbur Mills, who had never been out of the US, ignored him, as did all the senators and congressmen he spoke with.

In general, Kennan gave a picture, not only with regard to Yugoslavia, of congressional policies based on home-state politics.