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One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

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Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#141

Post by TomMarius »

ghaff wrote: post #68
TomMarius wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Is Boston not the classic car-oriented USA city?

Yes and no. It's famously congested and challenging to drive in--one of the most expensive road infrastructure projects in the US ever (the "Big Dig") notwithstanding. But the downtown core as well as large parts of the adjacent Cambridge are actually pretty walkable and the public transit, subway in particular, is pretty decent. (Regular users rightly complain a lot about it, especially in winter, but then thats tru…

Thank you, I was sure I heard about these massive congestion. I'm happy that the situation there is different than in the rest of US.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#142

Post by jefftk »

fluffything wrote: post #134
jefftk wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is Boston too sparsely populated to have schools in walking or biking distance? Boston is reasonably dense, but it's also defacto segregated, with parts of the city having different racial and class makeup. If we went back to neighborhood schools that people walked to that would mean effectively resegregating the schools. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_desegregation_busing_cr...

So Boston combats segregation by making children commute for longer ? Does that also apply to privileged families ? (I assume those would send children to private schools, avoiding such a system).

> So Boston combats segregation by making children commute for longer ?

Yes, and not just Boston: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desegregation_busing

> Does that also apply to privileged families?

Sometimes. Other times places close the schools in poor/non-white areas.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#143

Post by seltzered_ »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #126
seltzered_ wrote: post #112

“After it was unveiled parents loudly objected to the proposal. Less than a month later, the district repealed the proposed new school start times. As Dimitris Bertsimas, a professor who led the MIT team, pointed out in a presentation about the solution, those who favored the status quo had the most to lose. “When your kids are affected negatively, it is hard to see the big picture,” he said.” Joi Ito wrote on this h…

>Optimizing the algorithm for greater “equity" also meant many of the planned changes were "biased" against families with privilege. I mean maybe but measuring that by the skin color of those protesting is... not a good method. Of course people marching on City Hall or showing up at schoolboard meetings are going to be the disproportionately privileged, they're the people who have the time for that sort of thing. But…

Thanks for sharing this. I don't live in Boston so I haven't closely tracked all the views on BPS.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#144

Post by Dylan16807 »

cabaalis wrote: post #97
Dylan16807 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounded like the hours were relatively consistent over the whole system. It wouldn't really affect school choice. But fine, if this change is somehow egregious compared to other ones, give a 5 year warning. The schedule benefits their kids, with a net zero change in the convenience of starting hours. What a shortsighted way to complain.

> What a shortsighted way to complain. This is not how to build concensus for your argument. I recently moved due to concerns outside my control, and the school time changed from 8:30am to 7:15am for my 6-year-old. This is manageable, but not a minor change at all. These types of changes are very significant for everyone in the region.

> This is not how to build concensus for your argument.

Sure, I'm not trying to convince the population being affected with that. Here's how I would say it:

"Your kids are going through 12 years of education. This change to the entire system will make it easier for them to learn, and to be smarter adults with better focusing habits. For some people the hours are tougher right now, I'm sorry, but it's not like those hours came out of nowhere. Your students were going to have school at those hours eventually. We've only changed which years."

It's not about how hard the change is. It's that a few years of early school starts are inevitable, so it's a fair trade.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#145

Post by jdeibele »

hinkley wrote: post #30
tgtweak wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are often done by hand, I'm really not surprised.

You can also see this effect in Google and Apple maps: There may be three ways to get from one neighborhood to another, and the locals know that one is faster, safer, or both at certain times of day. I have this argument with a couple of friends who don't understand why I use different routes at different times of day and specifically why I don't use their route, when they've never been in that part of town during ru…

I lived in this city for many years. I was born here. The problem is, there are now so many other people who live here that what was once great shortcuts aren't any longer. It's been a shift to "light traffic = unusual" from "avoid rush hour and you'll be OK".

I am getting used to checking Google Maps before going anywhere near a freeway. Just a few days ago, I noticed that traffic heading south seemed bad as I was going north to drop off my daughters. I checked Google Maps and it said that going south on the freeway was fastest. I dithered and then got on the freeway. The choke point that was there 25 minutes ago was gone and I saved a bunch of time staying off surfaced roads.

The state highway department has cameras and road reports and announcements of construction. 20 years ago, I would have been on their website. Now I don't have to. I just use Google Maps.

I'm an iPhone user and I do try to use Apple Maps more often because of privacy concerns.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#146

Post by afterburner »

lexapro wrote: post #50
malandrew wrote: post #23

$2000 per student per year is insane for a bus service. That's like $10 a day. You could probably UberPool every kid at that price since you'd have a high utilization rate for two narrow 30 min to 1 hour windows each day.

$200 would be more appropriate.

That's like 50 cents per ride. There's a reason mass transit isn't that cheap.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#147

Post by pnutjam »

moftz wrote: post #138
ikeyany wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they enforced it, then it must not be that hard to get. It looks like you just need to take a test to get one.

The test is a bit more involved than a normal driving test. A normal test just involves reading street signs and how to handle things like right of way, don't pass on the right, use your blinker, basic important topics. CDL tests ask questions about maintenance (how often to inspect tires?), about how big trucks move on the road compared to little cars (which kind of truck could get stuck on a RR crossing?), and misc…

It also carries stricter enforcement of traffic violations, and mandatory drug testing.

I got a ticket for an improper lane change and the judge asked if I had a CDL which seemed to imply it would have been revoked.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#148

Post by lonnyk »

ido wrote: post #88
lonnyk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s the problem with walking a kilometer or two Where I grew up in New Jersey I lived 2 miles (3.2 KM) from school and I was considered close to the school. Those who lived within a 10-20 minute walk would walk. Many of us who lived further away would rely on the bus. Edit: And this was for elementary and middle school (up to age 13). From ages 14-18 everyone was significantly further away.

Assuming you were in a city rather than a rural area, is it because US school are larger & fewer? Nowhere in my hometown (250k mid-sized city) is more than 10-15 minutes walk from a school.

> is it because US school are larger & fewer

I don't know because I know very little about schools outside the US. My best guess would be that they vary everywhere and this isn't US specific.

> Assuming you were in a city rather than a rural area

Before I was born and when I was younger there were quite a few farms, but I didn't grow up with them. So I suppose it used to be rural and now is a suburb (in-between rural and a city). My town has about ~30k people.

There are a lot of sprawling cities (and I _think_ Boston may be one of those) where it would also be greater distances to walk to a school. ..so I'm not sure being a city is correlated to short walking distances to school.

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#149

Post by lonnyk »

plopz wrote: post #135
ido wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you were in a city rather than a rural area, is it because US school are larger & fewer? Nowhere in my hometown (250k mid-sized city) is more than 10-15 minutes walk from a school.

New Jersey doesn't have cities that large.

I was curious so I checked. According to Wikipedia we've two over 250k and 7 over 100k!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

Re: One City Saved $5M by Routing School Buses with an Algorithm

#150

Post by _dps »

mipmap04 wrote: post #99
superpermutat0r wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, all of these algorithms should be able to do well with arbitrary constraints. If it means saving less money then so be it. Many of these systems start optimizing some simple criteria and work fairly well. But with additional constraints they fall apart. Even companies that manage their own fleets for their own needs would like different things to purely optimizing distance/duration. They might want to b…

I’m not sure I follow. All of those additional optimizations are pretty simple problems in the OR field.

I've worked recently in this exact field (known in OR as "pickup dropoff problem with time windows" or PDPTW). As you say, all these modifications are completely standard (especially ones that minimize the worst-case "suffering" of the most-affected passenger).
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