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Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

aclu.org

21–26 of 26 posts

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#21

I am not an economist, but in this world of negative interest-rates (now common in Europe), another reason for cashless is to prevent people from keeping cash at home, behavior that make sense when the bank is making you pay for having a positive account. And as a cryptocurrency enthusiast, this cashless trend is also a way to make it harder to hide your crypto assets: hand-to-hand exchange of cash against crypto is…

It's basically a way to make bank runs illegal.

You have to pull out cash from the bank for a bank run to occur. Can't you buy gold or some other cash substitute instead?

Could be even more difficult to detect than abnormal spike in cash withdrawals via ATMs.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something like 2 trillion dollars laundered annually, and a lot of this happens through shops that use anonymous cash transactions to do it.

Source?

> "The estimated amount of money laundered globally in one year is 2 - 5% of global GDP, or $800 billion - $2 trillion in current US dollars. Though the margin between those figures is huge, even the lower estimate underlines the seriousness of the problem governments have pledged to address."

https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/money-laundering/globalizatio...

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source?

> "The estimated amount of money laundered globally in one year is 2 - 5% of global GDP, or $800 billion - $2 trillion in current US dollars. Though the margin between those figures is huge, even the lower estimate underlines the seriousness of the problem governments have pledged to address." https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/money-laundering/globalizatio...

I meant source for "a lot of this happens through shops that use anonymous cash transactions".

$2 trillion in $10 bodega transactions is 200 billion bodega transactions. Something tells me it's not the silver in the till that's the main problem. Or even the notes.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#24

This seems silly. Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees and generally enables all sorts of financial shenanigans. Rather than attacking the business, the ACLU should address the structural issues that prevent people from participating in the mainstream economy.

> Rather than attacking the business, the ACLU should address the structural issues that prevent people from participating in the mainstream economy.

But, that's exactly what they're doing here. Businesses are an institutionalized, structural component of society and, believe it or not, cash purchases are still part of the mainstream economy.

I know you mean that the ACLU should be focused on making plastic accessible to those who don't have access yet, but I think it's worth acknowledging that the issues with going full plastic might be significantly more difficult to tackle than simply preserving the existing payments system. If we're addressing the systemic inequity behind access to banked payments we're going to have to solve issues pertaining to financial stability, proof of identity and reform an incredibly large, complex bureaucracy which has been designed to exclude the people who don't have access. While you're busy addressing the broader systemic inequity of our finance system, the people who you're trying to help are still going to be facing exclusion by businesses who have gone cashless.

If we accept the premise that a cashless society is a desirable end goal and the very true fact that it isn't the fault of vendors that people have been systemically excluded from newer payments systems, we should also acknowledge there isn't an easy way to fix that. Until that's fixed, it will be up to these businesses to choose whether or not they're going to act in a way that excludes customers with cash.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically a way to make bank runs illegal.

You have to pull out cash from the bank for a bank run to occur. Can't you buy gold or some other cash substitute instead? Could be even more difficult to detect than abnormal spike in cash withdrawals via ATMs.

Spending money is taking money out of your bank account. Any event where more money leaves a bank than they have reserves to cover it is a run on the bank. I think what you may be elluding to is that digital transfer of funds makes the effects of a bank run different than than when cash is involved, since real money in hand cash is much more limited than a bank’s total reserves.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#26

I am not an economist, but in this world of negative interest-rates (now common in Europe), another reason for cashless is to prevent people from keeping cash at home, behavior that make sense when the bank is making you pay for having a positive account. And as a cryptocurrency enthusiast, this cashless trend is also a way to make it harder to hide your crypto assets: hand-to-hand exchange of cash against crypto is…

It's basically a way to make bank runs illegal.

How?
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