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GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

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Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#71
post #21

would be great if GitHub had some kind of patreon system built in, to make it very easy to do recurring donations. Especially for companies that use open source software for commercial activity, it would be great to have an automated way of paying each month and a culture for that, so that it's almost the default option. I know there are ways of doing this today, but if it's not super frictionless and integrated into…

Yes! I really hope that this is what Github Sponsors will end up being. They should make it trivial for businesses to spend each month X USD to split between open source projects that they rely on.

They should make it trivial for businesses to spend

Donating money is always incredibly tricky if you work at a larger company, especially if you get nothing in return. I can a buy a license or support contract easily, with a bit more effort I could probably sponsor a local FOSS meetup/event. But just giving someone $50 as a thanks for writing that software we rely on, is basically impossible unless I just pay it out of pocket.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#72
post #16

Here’s the catch: when you give away something completely for free, people aren’t that motivated to pay for it. It's worse than that, people don't value it very highly if it's free.

It is probably even worse, people assume that they get what they pay for, so some people won't even look at the free options. It is happening with me right now. I am searching for a Jekyll theme, and there are a bunch of free ones, but because time is money I will only try the paid ones.

Especially with databases. Some businesses won't even entertain the idea of using Maria or Postgres.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#73
post #26

Lots of developers have an expectation of "Build it, they will come" as a route to market, and they end up disappointed. Selling a piece of software, regardless of whether or not you also give away the source, is really hard. Moving people from "I want this handy tool" to "I will pay for this handy tool" is the hardest part of sales no matter how amazing your app is. People who have relatively limited amounts of mone…

> Lots of developers have an expectation of "Build it, they will come" as a route to market, and they end up disappointed.

> Selling a piece of software, regardless of whether or not you also give away the source, is really hard.

Completely agree, if 1% of your users give a crap that you've engineered magic to get XYZ working, you're lucky.

99% don't care, but they'll use your product if it comes up on Google's first page, if it has a decent social media presence and they're hooked from one of your posts/blogs about it.

If you're building a product right now, and you've not written various posts about "How ABC solves your XYZ problem", welcome to the low-user zone. Launching onto Product Hunt is not enough anymore. Get talking about you work, if you're genuinely proud of it.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#74
That guy wasted not only his time in writing a non-FOSS application, but also the time of other people who will need to redo that work later on.

It is illegitimate for the use, distribution and modification of software to be restricted. Due to inopportune social arrangements (e.g. Capitalism) people, like the author, are kept in an artificial state of material want, which forces them to play the corrupting game of intellectual property and close-source software.

I try to avoid that (even if it isn't easy sometime.)

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#75

I'm closing in on 100 public, nontrivial, nonforked repos on github. Since github's inception, I've received a total of $200 in donations for my OSS stuff, 1 job from a company that uses a product of mine as the foundation of their business, and many job offers from people who are familiar with my work. I don't make money off OSS, and never have (at least not directly). But I just. can't. stop. I can't. I've tried su…

Far from your count (I'm at 59 non-fork - had to look it up - for which many are very small, and about the same non-public/local).

I've noticed that the ones that got traction/stars/forks were entirely unexpected and started as one hour hackjobs (ex-mode for Atom, trim_patcher, 1st gen Xbox One controller kext, Matterfront) whereas the ones I just can't let go and pour genuine long term effort into are the ones getting zero stars/forks (ArchMac is like 12 years now and I'm still the sole user).

Not that I care, I'll just keep on scratching my own itches, and I learned a lot (and still do!) doing that.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#76
Really good writing on many of the challenges of launching your own application.

Went through the same cycle, of first releasing an open source software that had donation support. Gathered an user base over many years, at max I was receiving maybe 500 - 800 USD in donations over a year, after working on the software like 3 years.

Was really reluctant to make the software a commercial version, because I was limited in my thinking that software should be available for anyone to use. You can't make a living out of that, except in some very rare cases.

Once we launched a commercial version of our software (https://OmniGeometry.com), got a lot of backslash from users complaining about the price not being free anymore, and actually we priced the software lot higher than people usually do, but we are implementing something that fills a very specific niche, where we have almost no competition.

As a result of that, we are now actually making money that can support the continuing development of the software and can support our two man team as creators. To be honest I am surprised that we managed to do that, but are very happy about it of course.

I agree with what is written in the article:

"Don’t let anyone tell you how much you should charge for your work"

Writing software can be very difficult and complex, and usually takes many years to reach anything usable and even then it is a risk if it will become anything that people will use.

Almost certainly you will receive hateful or resentful messages from people if you are charging for your work, as on some levels they would like to use your software, but would like it to be free also, so they just lash out at you for not making it free.

Something just have to get used to when selling software these days it seems. If people had any idea how much skills and dedication it requires to even be able to write usable software, maybe they would agree that paying for example 200 usd for a software package that will give you possibly hundreds of hours of entertainment is a good investment.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#77
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they recently did. https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/23/18637344/github-sponsors-...

wow, love it. Look forward to seeing it rolled out - it looks like you can only sponsor individuals for now, would be great to be able to sponsor projects

it looks like you can only sponsor individuals for now

I wonder if that will create some perverse incentives? Will people be as willing to contribute significantly to projects if they know the maintainer is making $1000s and they're getting nothing. Or will they instead rather try to start their own competing project in hopes of capturing some of that revenue.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#78
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was, in fact, so difficult to define "commercial use" 10 years ago and nothing has changed, e.g. https://www.socialmediatoday.com/content/defining-non-commer... You can always release your software under the AGPL (which is an OSI-approved license)--which would effectively prohibit its use by cloud providers. Probably very few others will use it either but that's the tradeoff you make.

Careful with AGPL. It has yet to stand in court, and is actually the license mongodb has left behind in favour of their own SSPL because it turned out not strong enough, and not preventing eg. AWS to sell mongodb as a sevice without releasing any of their provisioning and monitoring sw (though I'm not sure AWS actually uses mongo or, like Azure with CosmosDB, a proprietary API-compatible product instead). The amount…

I don't get the concern; if the AGPL is invalid, then the software user is even more screwed: they have no license to use it at all. Wining such a dispute would be a pyrrhic victory.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#79
Been there. Done that. Pretty much every open source developer hits a point where they realize that even very popular open source projects don’t keep food on the table.

However, what gives open source value is that a project with 10,000 Github stars looks very good on a resume. That doesn’t matter now, where pretty much any programmer can get a good job, but it will matter after the current economic expansion stops and we are in the next recession.

I got not one, but two job offers in the middle of 2010, during a very tough recession, because of my somewhat notable open source project. My open source project allowed me to keep my skills current while I was living in Mexico as an English teacher and professional translator.

To this day, in job interviews, it allows me to demonstrate I was still working on computers and with technology after the dot-com bubble crashed.

The important thing to keep in mind is that users are not customers until they pay for the code. If they don’t like the fact you won’t implement their favorite pet feature request, you can give them a full refund, which won’t cost you anything. Never let your users cause you stress.

Re: GitHub stars won’t pay your rent

#80

I'm closing in on 100 public, nontrivial, nonforked repos on github. Since github's inception, I've received a total of $200 in donations for my OSS stuff, 1 job from a company that uses a product of mine as the foundation of their business, and many job offers from people who are familiar with my work. I don't make money off OSS, and never have (at least not directly). But I just. can't. stop. I can't. I've tried su…

> On many days I despair that I won't live long enough to build even a tiny fraction of the things I see in my mind. It's infuriating!

Glad I'm not the only one in that boat. If it matters I'm 38 now.

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