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Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

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Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#151

Post by krageon »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #36
A2017U1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much money did private enterprise make from the Arab Spring? Hundred billion or so? To pretend like it was a moral issue is insane. Most people don't care in the slightest in democratic countries. Virtually every country involved in sending troops couldn't point to it on a map nor talk about the region with any sort of knowledge. We walked in and replaced Hussein with ISIS. It will go down as 21st century Vietnam…

> China has nukes. Absolutely nothing will happen China has shown (again) in their treatment of Hong Kong that they don't care about past agreements. The least that anyone can do, even in the presence of nukes, is to get their business out of China, and that is already happening to some degree. And of course be welcoming to people who choose to emigrate from Hong Kong.

China was always going to annex Hong Kong eventually, this is something almost everyone with any interest in this particular situation has known for many years.

Spinning that particular situation in a reason to boycott a country (and replace it with what? India isn't exactly a paragon of virtue and neither is the US, and let us never speak of the stain that is Russia) is a strange mental place to go to.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#152

Post by girvo »

majia wrote: post #22
lewi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claims without citations, 5 day old account, comment history shows user is from china: not sure if I'd trust the comment.

Please follow HN guidelines and refrain from personal attack. Assume good faith and be substantive.

Honest question: what should communities do with the rise of nationalist “shill” accounts? The hard part is, it’s impossible to tell the difference between someone who’s merely a nationalist and someone who’s bought and paid for to post what amounts to propaganda, muddying the waters of discussion online. Extremely difficult problem to solve. Assuming good faith gets harder and harder as more information comes out about these “comment farms”, at times.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#153

Post by dmd »

krageon wrote: post #148
mc32 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I’ve read (which obviously is removed from the “ground” and has bias) China has inserted agent provocateurs, but haven’t coöpted the movement to that degree. It appears to be mostly grass roots though some of the lighter moderates evaporating leaving the moderates and hard core protesters to fight on which results in heavier tactics.

Assuming that a powerful nation has not deeply owned every large-scale protest is in my experience extremely naive. Either the protest has no teeth or it's penetrated all the way to the top with either government agents or extensive surveillance. This means that action outside of what the government feels like dealing with means arrests (no matter how temporary) and that any action that is taken means that the govern…

If you really know this for a fact, you should contact https://www.nytimes.com/tips

But I'm guessing by 'fact' you mean 'I'm very convinced of my own opinions'.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#154

Post by girvo »

rorykoehler wrote: post #38
Tigah_pawszzz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could be provocateurs, and sadly there’s no way to verify this for now. My point is, to judge things fair and square you gotta hear from both sides:D

Having read all your comments it seems your point is to introduce doubt and muddy the waters. It's a classic propaganda tactic which is routinely employed by the CCP. It might work on reddit but it will take more than that here.

I certainly hope that it requires more than that here. It seems pretty transparent to me, but others are defending it, so I’m unsure if we’re really as immune as we’d like to think

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#155

Post by [deleted] »

wtdata wrote: post #140
nnx wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t think France “mostly waited it out” when there has been more injured yellow vests than HKers so far: 2 more or less connected deaths, 1 person lost lower arm, and at least 24 lost an eye, including one of the most pacific yellow vest leader Jerome Rodrigues https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/14/europe/france-bastille-day-in... In many ways, french police did repress protesters in a much more brutal way than HK police…

That's a very biased take on what happened in France. The protesters were burning cars and destroying public and private property to vast extents, besides throwing Molotov cocktails at the police. The yellow vests went way, way beyond their right to protest. https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/-yellow-vest-protests-grow-v... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/yellow-ve... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-eu…

[deleted]

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#156

Post by woah »

krageon wrote: post #143
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you but it's a lot easier for the west to turn a blind eye to the middle east or Africa (especially post fracking) than it is to turn a blind eye to the far east. By virtue of their standards of living, deep economic ties and stable governments the more developed parts of the far east are basically honorary Europe in the west's mind and that comes with higher expectations of civility. It's real…

What do you mean when you say "honorary Europe", because I am certain it does not mean what I expect it to mean: A fundamentally fair and well-functioning society with very few if any governmental killings and high stability within it's borders.

You should read about Spain

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#157

Post by swarnie_ »

krageon wrote: post #143
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you but it's a lot easier for the west to turn a blind eye to the middle east or Africa (especially post fracking) than it is to turn a blind eye to the far east. By virtue of their standards of living, deep economic ties and stable governments the more developed parts of the far east are basically honorary Europe in the west's mind and that comes with higher expectations of civility. It's real…

What do you mean when you say "honorary Europe", because I am certain it does not mean what I expect it to mean: A fundamentally fair and well-functioning society with very few if any governmental killings and high stability within it's borders.

> A fundamentally fair and well-functioning society with very few if any governmental killings and high stability within it's borders.

This is what I assumed it meant. I know its difficult to make this work with the US but lots of Asian cities can boast these features.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#158

Post by simonh »

MaximumYComb wrote: post #34
trilila wrote: post #20

Strange how putrid governments find members of society happy to oppress other members of the society. Such as those soldiers happily waiting to execute orders against the freedoms of their fellow citizens.

I'm assuming you're privileged enough to have never been an enlisted soldier in a military? This isn't hordes of men clamouring to "oppress" someone. Often people are conscripted or come from such a poor background that enlistment helps their life significantly. After the first 6 months in the military, you'll have been broken enough to have lost a lot of sense of individuality and are willing to just blindly follow…

Most of those troops will be from rural regions. Everything they know about the wider world is told to them by state media and their commanders.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#159

Post by aikah »

dep_b wrote: post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

> Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

It's interesting how 30 years ago, western economists were trying to sell everybody how moving all our industries to China will eventually turn the latter into a democracy because economic growth and democracy goes hand in hand.

30 years later, the Chinese communist party has never been as powerful as it is today and they are still employing the same barbaric methods to crush any form of rebellion, as seen with how they are dealing with the Uyghur.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#160

Post by [deleted] »

krageon wrote: post #143
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree with you but it's a lot easier for the west to turn a blind eye to the middle east or Africa (especially post fracking) than it is to turn a blind eye to the far east. By virtue of their standards of living, deep economic ties and stable governments the more developed parts of the far east are basically honorary Europe in the west's mind and that comes with higher expectations of civility. It's real…

What do you mean when you say "honorary Europe", because I am certain it does not mean what I expect it to mean: A fundamentally fair and well-functioning society with very few if any governmental killings and high stability within it's borders.

[deleted]
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