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Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

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Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#121

China got away with it once but escalation is in principle a sign of weak government. Compare a nation like France which mostly waited it out.

Don’t think France “mostly waited it out” when there has been more injured yellow vests than HKers so far: 2 more or less connected deaths, 1 person lost lower arm, and at least 24 lost an eye, including one of the most pacific yellow vest leader Jerome Rodrigues https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/14/europe/france-bastille-day-in...

In many ways, french police did repress protesters in a much more brutal way than HK police has done so far. Of course having PLA in the city would be a different story however...

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#122
post #21
post #4

Sigh. Hopefully we won't get a repeat of the Tiananmen square massacre. I've not seen any nations speak out about the HK protests. Unlike, say, when many expressed support for the Arab Spring.

How much money did private enterprise make from the Arab Spring? Hundred billion or so? To pretend like it was a moral issue is insane. Most people don't care in the slightest in democratic countries. Virtually every country involved in sending troops couldn't point to it on a map nor talk about the region with any sort of knowledge. We walked in and replaced Hussein with ISIS. It will go down as 21st century Vietnam…

> How much money did private enterprise make from the Arab Spring? Hundred billion or so?

Who and how? Outside of the Iraq/Afghanistan invasions, which were huge excuses to hand over pallets of untraceable bills to US contractors.

Quite a few telecoms etc companies lost money and assets in the strife. Or contracts with the collapsed governments.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just the brainwashing that you've received growing up in the west. I know because I grew up in the US, but I've learned more about other countries and realized that things aren't really like this.

Accusing people of being brainwashed isn’t a strong argument.

Why does the CIA own all that abstract art again?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#125
post #88
post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

Never underestimate the persuasive power of a regime murdering several thousand people in plain sight. I remember thinking the same thing about the Arab Spring in 2009.

I generally agree with you but it's a lot easier for the west to turn a blind eye to the middle east or Africa (especially post fracking) than it is to turn a blind eye to the far east. By virtue of their standards of living, deep economic ties and stable governments the more developed parts of the far east are basically honorary Europe in the west's mind and that comes with higher expectations of civility.

It's really hard to predict where the "fuck it, you've gone too far, we can't do nothing this time" line is. Remember, basically everyone else in Asia is rooting for the west to cut china off economically so they can fill China's manufacturing role.

I agree that unless the Chinese really butcher people it will be business as usual but the chance of some viral video lighting a fire under the politician's asses is not to be discounted, especially when the current US administration has taken a policy line that means they will play up these kinds of things for negotiating leverage.

Edit: by "honorary Europe" I mean they have similar standards of living, similar strong and stable government institutions and with that comes the expectation that they won't just drive tanks over people at the drop of a hat. Basically, they're rich enough that we expect them to handle the problem in what we consider the "right way".

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi is very much a dictator, but he also needs money to maintain his dictatorship. HK for all its faults and bads is still quite important to the Chinese economy. That's why we haven't become Xinjiang, IMO.

I think hks importance is extremely arguable. Hks gdp is barely 3 percent of china's with a stalling growth rate. I've worked in both Shanghai and Hong Kong and I can say a lot of the large cities are much much nicer in China now. You also have a lot things like hackathons and events where you see lots of young creative people who really want to make things. In Hong Kong the culture is more towards looking good in a…

It's not what you're wearing, but how you're wearing it.

Culture is more than the rack (or tailor) you buy your suit from. If you choose to wear one. Things like personal space and not spitting in public and not having to kowtowing to whomever is the current President, are things some hold dear. Others may not. Other still, may look to the past and ask: what started on 15th April, 1989 and ended on 4th June 1989, in Tiananmen Square, and elsewhere in China?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#127

Whoever is behind the current protests in Hong Kong. (possibly US possibly China, perhaps it has changed). is forcing China to act in a brutal manner. They cannot have this form of anarchy and disturbance. Actually, the US would have acted harshly already if it was on US soil. I can't think of any protesters invading congress and not getting shot at. Stopping traffic at an airport? Yeah that is not going to happen fo…

Occupy Wall Street and the Wisconsin congressional sit-in comes to mind. They both eventually ended without great violence.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#128

Whoever is behind the current protests in Hong Kong. (possibly US possibly China, perhaps it has changed). is forcing China to act in a brutal manner. They cannot have this form of anarchy and disturbance. Actually, the US would have acted harshly already if it was on US soil. I can't think of any protesters invading congress and not getting shot at. Stopping traffic at an airport? Yeah that is not going to happen fo…

This whole comment is disturbing on so many levels.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#129
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland’s economy is highly subsidized by the German, French and Italian taxpayers, the only significant payers to the EU budget.

The countries you mentioned contribute to the EU budget, not Poland's economy.

Isn't that a matter of semantics.. if a Polish highway being built has a sign next to it that says it is 20% sponsored by the EU, doesn't that mean 1 out of every 5 Zloty the roadbuilder is earning comes from the EU?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#130
post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

These are fake news to foment Hong Kong protestors by conflating facts. I hope such fake news do not become part of HN. You are absolutely right Hong Kong cannot even provide proper shelter or health system or good education to more than 40% of its people, who live in a space smaller than prison cell. All these protests are due to this simmering discontent. I do not think living in a prison cell size apartment and th…

If what you say is true, about simmering discontent in HK due to conditions worse than in China. Why don't the HK people just move to China? Are there any rules against that?

If not, why are they staying in HK?

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