So… a few thoughts. I live in HK (having semi-recently moved here from the Bay Area, right before this all flared up). First, there's a ton of misinformation out there. Few sources have entirely accurate information, but the best English-language resource I've found on the subject is the local paper South China Morning Post (scmp.com). They have pretty accurate and unbiased live reporting of the protests as it flares…
Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
71–80 of 142 posts
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
You literally just have to open their front page to find them calling military deployments in a stadium near Hong Kong "drills", citing anonymous sources that say "they are not of concern" and quoting liberally from anonymous online-posters on Chinese message boards (sic!) spouting hate.
I found it interesting that another username commented with the exact same message[0] in a related thread, slightly modified but with the exact same sentence structure and quotes. > You only just have to open the SCMP front page to find them calling military deployments in a stadium near Hong Kong "drills", citing anonymous sources that say "they are not of concern" and quoting liberally from anonymous posters on Chi…
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#73So… a few thoughts. I live in HK (having semi-recently moved here from the Bay Area, right before this all flared up). First, there's a ton of misinformation out there. Few sources have entirely accurate information, but the best English-language resource I've found on the subject is the local paper South China Morning Post (scmp.com). They have pretty accurate and unbiased live reporting of the protests as it flares…
In your view they have moved past simply being an anti-extradition bill protest? In other words- if the bill was withdrawn your sentiment is that the protests would continue?
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#74> China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, wants to make Hong Kong more like a mainland city, using economic incentives to buy happiness and propaganda to win loyalty. The protesters, who represent a wide swath of Hong Kong, want a government that looks out for their interests, not just Beijing’s, to help resolve problems like astronomical housing prices and low wages. > The two sides no longer seem to recognize each other’s…
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#75> China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, wants to make Hong Kong more like a mainland city, using economic incentives to buy happiness and propaganda to win loyalty. The protesters, who represent a wide swath of Hong Kong, want a government that looks out for their interests, not just Beijing’s, to help resolve problems like astronomical housing prices and low wages. > The two sides no longer seem to recognize each other’s…
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/08/08/chinese-troops-...
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
You literally just have to open their front page to find them calling military deployments in a stadium near Hong Kong "drills", citing anonymous sources that say "they are not of concern" and quoting liberally from anonymous online-posters on Chinese message boards (sic!) spouting hate.
They are literally drills: nobody is getting shot in Shenzhen. Of course the drills are sabre-rattling, a show of force intended to send a message, and preparation for a future assault if necessary -- but they're still drills, not use of the military in anger.
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#77> China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, wants to make Hong Kong more like a mainland city, using economic incentives to buy happiness and propaganda to win loyalty. The protesters, who represent a wide swath of Hong Kong, want a government that looks out for their interests, not just Beijing’s, to help resolve problems like astronomical housing prices and low wages. > The two sides no longer seem to recognize each other’s…
They're a newspaper, not a political blog. This isn't an op-ed. They're not meant to be "taking a side."
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#78> China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, wants to make Hong Kong more like a mainland city, using economic incentives to buy happiness and propaganda to win loyalty. The protesters, who represent a wide swath of Hong Kong, want a government that looks out for their interests, not just Beijing’s, to help resolve problems like astronomical housing prices and low wages. > The two sides no longer seem to recognize each other’s…
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is up to the reader to form an opinion given the evidence presented to them. The media should try to present both sides as neutrally as possible. If Beijing's side has been watered down so much as to be comically neutral, the reader should be able to pick up on this and understand the lack of positive traits attributable to Beijing's position. The recent inversion of the norm of the neutrality of the media is bad.…
Excel_Wizard, you are conflating neutrality with objective reporting. There is no objectivity. Every line and word written has a bias. Equating two sides when they are starkly different is not neutral and reporting the facts. If Beijing's side has been watered down so much as to be comically neutral, the reader should be able to pick up on this and understand the lack of positive traits attributable to Beijing's posi…
Let's say you run a newspaper that has to report on 50 different stories every day. A large fraction of these stories involve the moral plights of two or more aggrieved parties. Any moral stance you take inevitably skews the perception of the story, when the reader has the responsibility for forming an opinion without it being tilted by anything other than the facts. Sticking to the facts of the story is paramount. Taking a moral stance is a shortcut- an easy way to excite your crowd and get them addicted to more high-adrenaline reporting.
>Equating two sides when they are starkly different is not neutral and reporting the facts.
Sticking to the facts is not the same as equating the two sides. Neutrality in reporting is connoted with sticking to the facts.
>If you truly believe this is the case, please get outside of whatever bubble you are living in and see how other people think.
The practices I am recommending are (part of) an antidote to the failure modes of how people think. Yellow journalism is on an uptick because of social media- the most emotional news stories are the most viral ones. There's a reason that they teach best practices for media objectivity in grade school. To hopefully constrain our emotions enough to make good judgements and decisions about the events we read about.
People that make fun of NYTimes's neutrality seem to prefer a world where the Huffington Post, a slew of shared facebook news reports, and the Drudge Report dominate the news outlets. Is this the world you want?
Let's go back into the story to discuss:
>The two sides no longer seem to recognize each other’s concerns.
The GGP highlighted this quote as being ridiculously neutral. I imagine you would call this "equating the two sides". When I read it in the context of violent protest, I took it to mean that they are not communicating through any other means than violence, i.e. there are not currently productive talks between the two sides.
Re: Protests Put Hong Kong on Collision Course with China’s Communist Party
#80> China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, wants to make Hong Kong more like a mainland city, using economic incentives to buy happiness and propaganda to win loyalty. The protesters, who represent a wide swath of Hong Kong, want a government that looks out for their interests, not just Beijing’s, to help resolve problems like astronomical housing prices and low wages. > The two sides no longer seem to recognize each other’s…
I am not even certain though that most cases they actually realize what they are doing if their paternalistic language ... of imposing their will on others for our/my/your own good ... can be taken as an honest indication. It's very much the same kind of authoritarians/abusive mindset and action that is common among western "liberals"/leftists and the CCP. Ironically too is that as most here are left leaning, if not largely leftists (whether they realize it or not), they also don't realize that this situation with HK is only a petri dish of what is to come due to leftist/liberal/globalist delusions of world wide kumbaya and hand holding amidst global world peace and tranquility. On the contrary actually, the liberal/leftist/globalist actions and values are a black swan that struts around right before us, but none are permitted to see, and even the supposed smartest people around dismiss off hand out of idle narcissism.