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Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

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Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#111

Post by ThinkBeat »

Whoever is behind the current protests in Hong Kong. (possibly US possibly China, perhaps it has changed). is forcing China to act in a brutal manner.

They cannot have this form of anarchy and disturbance.

Actually, the US would have acted harshly already if it was on US soil. I can't think of any protesters invading congress and not getting shot at. Stopping traffic at an airport? Yeah that is not going to happen for very long.

China must act. Any nation would act at this point.

It will come with much suffering and it is almost completely unnecessary. The protesters took it way too far. It will also make China look bad on the international stage, especially with the Us controlling the western narrative.

Perhaps still China can find an alternative approach. I hope so.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#112

Post by tropicalia »

baybal2 wrote: post #65
hjanssen wrote: post #16

This is really bad and definitely triggers memorys of the Tiananmen massacre. I'm very interested how the rest of the world is going to react to these developments considering the position of China only got stronger since the Tinanmen situation. I recognized that the reaction of e.g. Germany was considerably weaker to the HK protests than e.g. the Arab Spring protests, but I guess we just have to wait and see. Edit:…

If you have a better memory, this is how it was: 1. Local police was sent, it either did nothing or deserted 2. Troops from BJ itself were sent in, largely the same happened 3. Liaoning military region troops were called, they fared just a bit better than BJ troops, made few attack attempts, but nevertheless withdrew 4. Finally, as Beijing was getting more and more desperate, Shaanxi military region troops - "the pri…

And if it turns out (because times have changed) they no longer have enough "primitives" to do their dirty work for them - combined with all the cameras running, these days -

What then?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#113

Post by inflatableDodo »

loyukfai wrote: post #77
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they absolutely cannot come into Hong Kong, it would be a totally stupid move Strategically, for China? Yes. Politically, for Xi? Maybe not. Remember that Xi is a dictator. Moves that boost him in the short term at China’s long-term expense are on the board.

Xi is very much a dictator, but he also needs money to maintain his dictatorship. HK for all its faults and bads is still quite important to the Chinese economy. That's why we haven't become Xinjiang, IMO.

To pick a single data point, I'd assume that someone who bans all Winnie The Pooh pictures across a country after comparisons are made with themselves, has very probably gone insane and become utterly drunk on power.

Do not expect Xi to do something sane, especially if he feels insulted. I think HK's best hope is for something else big to distract him. Unfortunately, I think it is very likely right now that he will invade HK and kill a lot of people.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#114

Post by sfthrower89 »

baybal2 wrote: post #93
loyukfai wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi is very much a dictator, but he also needs money to maintain his dictatorship. HK for all its faults and bads is still quite important to the Chinese economy. That's why we haven't become Xinjiang, IMO.

> Xi is very much a dictator, but he also needs money to maintain his dictatorship. To maintain dictatorship, you need bullets, not money. In USSR during Stalin, regular people were pretty much eating grass, but he never doubted his ability to do virtually anything to them without repercussions. Soviet army of the time had a meal of 3 slices of dried bread and a millet porridge. Even Stalin's personal bodyguards were…

Most dictators maintain themselves pretty well. Only a handful in my lifetime have been assassinated, deposed, or voted out. Most of them die peaceful natural deaths, and remain in office until the end.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#115

Post by tonyedgecombe »

alexmlamb2 wrote: post #101
dep_b wrote: post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

This is just the brainwashing that you've received growing up in the west. I know because I grew up in the US, but I've learned more about other countries and realized that things aren't really like this.

Accusing people of being brainwashed isn’t a strong argument.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#116

Post by FrojoS »

fggvgg wrote: post #80
adventured wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's working out fine for 'us,' mostly. Putin has exhausted his only card though, the energy card, which was used to give Russia's economy a jump; now there's no follow-up maneuver. The Russian people have of course started to take notice of that fact. Russia is an increasingly inconsequential regional power, with a relatively weak and small economy (now smaller than Canada; about to be smaller than Australia). Gener…

Poland’s economy is highly subsidized by the German, French and Italian taxpayers, the only significant payers to the EU budget.

True. But the growth is real.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#117

Post by FrojoS »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #92
fggvgg wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland’s economy is highly subsidized by the German, French and Italian taxpayers, the only significant payers to the EU budget.

The countries you mentioned contribute to the EU budget, not Poland's economy.

Most of the EU budget is subsidies. A substantial amount goes to new EU members.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#118

Post by adventured »

ackbar03 wrote: post #89
loyukfai wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xi is very much a dictator, but he also needs money to maintain his dictatorship. HK for all its faults and bads is still quite important to the Chinese economy. That's why we haven't become Xinjiang, IMO.

I think hks importance is extremely arguable. Hks gdp is barely 3 percent of china's with a stalling growth rate. I've worked in both Shanghai and Hong Kong and I can say a lot of the large cities are much much nicer in China now. You also have a lot things like hackathons and events where you see lots of young creative people who really want to make things. In Hong Kong the culture is more towards looking good in a…

Hong Kong's importance to China isn't its GDP contribution primarily (although it is special vs China when it comes to per capita performance; Hong Kong packs a lot of economic punch in a small package). It's the special relationship Hong Kong is still granted globally on trade & finance, particularly with the US.

China desperately requires dollars to keep its debt problems floating and to interact with the global economy (relatively little is settled in Yuan outside of China's borders). Without a steady inflow of dollars China cannot function normally; their economy would seize up.

Hong Kong is a critical inflow port for US Dollars into China's economy and is largely spared from the tariff war.

This is why Hong Kong is so important to China right now, and it's also why China has been so careful in suppressing the protests (by their standards). China is afraid of the US changing Hong Kong's special status. People often don't think China can be swayed: the US slapped currency manipulator status on them, and they immediately backed off from letting the Yuan sink, carefully pegging it just inbounds near the 7 line.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#119

Post by markus_zhang »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #115
alexmlamb2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just the brainwashing that you've received growing up in the west. I know because I grew up in the US, but I've learned more about other countries and realized that things aren't really like this.

Accusing people of being brainwashed isn’t a strong argument.

I'd say that nothing is white and black and a deeper analysis usually reveals interesting facts.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#120

Post by dragonsh »

dep_b wrote: post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

These are fake news to foment Hong Kong protestors by conflating facts. I hope such fake news do not become part of HN.

You are absolutely right Hong Kong cannot even provide proper shelter or health system or good education to more than 40% of its people, who live in a space smaller than prison cell. All these protests are due to this simmering discontent.

I do not think living in a prison cell size apartment and then being hold hostage to mortgage for life working for 14 rich billionaires of the city is ahead of it's time.

Hong Kong is just paying price of its own reliance on get rich quick through property and closed China. First one destroyed innovation and second one is no longer true. Today Chinese cities are way ahead in innovation and technology, they also have a property bubble but not as severe as Hong Kong. Hope they learn lesson from Hong Kong.

When it suited Hong Kong they asked China to reinterpret basic law for their own benefit against basic human rights separating spouses and kids and they still do it with impunity and all people in Hong Kong are happy with that reinterpretation. You cross line once you cannot go back, this is what Hong Kong asked for and got it. Moreover Hong Kong is a Chinese territory so everything applicable in China apply except few exception as defined in basic law.

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