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Anxiety Looks Different in Men

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Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#141

Post by nesadi »

justinjlynn wrote: post #132
mattlutze wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misandry is the state of being predisposed or prejudiced against men. Toxic masculinity is stereotypical or reductive modes of action or thinking perceived by men as expected or required, which can be harmful to other men or other people. They're not the same and it'd be not great to think that they are the same.

True. Though misandry also includes the devaluing of certain ways a masculine identifying person might express that masculinity, just as misogyny also includes ways the devaluing of certain ways a feminine identifying person might express their femininity. Misandry is not simply the wholesale hatred of men and/or masculinity, just as misogyny is not simply the wholesale hatred of women and/or femininity. Toxic mascul…

All this talk about "toxic masculinity" tells me that there's something fundamentally wrong about the whole conversation. Because nobody wants to define what masculinity, healthy masculinity, is supposed to look like in all aspects of life and, most importantly, how it relates to sexuality in general and sexuality with women. I just get the sense that masculinity as a whole is supposed to be toxic.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#143

Post by yodsanklai »

I'm an anxious person, but my anxiety just looks like regular anxiety. It led me to take sub-optimal decisions and overall made my life more difficult that what it could have been. I didn't know anxiety was a thing, and that it was "curable" until I was 25. At that time, my gf who just became MD noticed my issue and prescribed me benzodiazepines. They really helped. I know they have bad press as they can be abused, but in my case, I take them occasionally and I haven't noticed any side effect or addiction.

I don't think anxiety can be cured but the symptoms can certainly be alleviated. It really helped me to understand that it was a condition, like headache, and that it was temporary and could be controlled to some extent.

It's also interesting that while I'm still anxious, I'm not anxious for the same things anymore. I used to be paralyzed by the mere thought of giving a talk (esp. in English). I don't care as much anymore. Now it manifests itself in other occasions.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#144

Post by belorn »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #20
monksy wrote: post #3

That's because as men: We aren't allowed to be a worrier, anxious, etc. We're expected to be confident and assertive. If we aren't then we possibly suffer rejection in relationships and we get socially isolated.

This is a pretty good explanation of a large aspect of what falls under the concept dubbed "toxic masculinity."

With that definition we are saying that women have toxic masculinity if/when they culturally expect men to not worry or be anxious.

Which is not how I have seen anyone use the term. People who want to talk about harmful gender stereotyping and gender expectations tend to use the term "gender stereotyping" and "gender expectations". "toxic masculinity" in contrast get used when a person want to express a negative connotation targeting at men exclusively, usually with a hostile generalization of men as a demographic.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#145

Post by krapp »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #125
krapp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But most writers and journalists tend to be on the feminine side of the spectrum because that correlates with verbal ability. Most writers and journalists have traditionally been men, because men have traditionally been considered more trustworthy and intelligent. The cultural stigma against female authorship has been strong enough that they have tended to either publish under male pseudonyms or neutral identities (…

Do you really think JK Rowling's gender has harmed her earning potential? She was outed - if that's the word - as a woman - almost as soon as the books began selling and no one seemed particularly bothered. It seems odd to pick a woman who is a billionaire as evidence of poor earning potential.

J.K. Rowling's publisher suggested she use those initials rather than her real name because it was believed that a fantasy authored by a woman would not be read by boys, and thus would have less earning potential[0].

Her success is evidence that the prejudice is unwarranted, and culturally waning, not that it doesn't exist, and certainly not that it never existed.

And there's a long history of women authors publishing under male names for similar reasons, the Bronte sisters being famous examples[1,2]. Although obviously in their cases, the stigma against women authors was much worse than in modern times.

Also, data shows that authorship still favors men considerably[3, 4], although women do sometimes dominate certain genres.

[0]https://www.capitalfm.com/news/jk-rowling-full-name/

[1]https://theculturetrip.com/north-america/usa/articles/12-fem...

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Bront%C3%AB

[3]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/feb/04/research-male-...

[4]https://pudding.cool/2017/06/best-sellers/

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#146

Post by shard972 »

dnh44 wrote: post #104
tachyonbeam wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evolutionary psychology says that women are looking for men who have the characteristics of a strong leader. That means assertiveness, calm, self-confidence, happiness, etc. If you look around, that seems to be very much true. I don't think women are necessarily paying that much attention to wealth, but it definitely seems like they are drawn to confident and charismatic men. Men on the other hand, don't seem to mind…

> My self-esteem was shattered for a week afterwards. I think I obviously need to pick kinder women to go on dates with. Based on what you've written, I'm not convinced her behaviour was all that unkind. At least you received honest feedback which I think is kind. Consider the social norms of the society you live in and then consider the impact to her self-esteem your lack of initiative had. I say this as someone who…

Have you considered that maybe scioety just needs to get with the times?

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#147

Post by [deleted] »

fizzledbits wrote: post #23
gavia1 wrote: post #2

This surprises me as a male who suffers from anxiety and exhibits none of these symptoms. To be more specific my anxiety manifests as a feeling of unease, sometimes fear; and at times blends in with OCD where I become unsure of my short term memory and whether or not something did or did not happen.

Much the same experience here, including the difficulty with memory which I find to be the most insidious thing. What have you found helps it, if you don't mind me asking?

[deleted]

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#148

Post by justinjlynn »

nesadi wrote: post #141
justinjlynn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. Though misandry also includes the devaluing of certain ways a masculine identifying person might express that masculinity, just as misogyny also includes ways the devaluing of certain ways a feminine identifying person might express their femininity. Misandry is not simply the wholesale hatred of men and/or masculinity, just as misogyny is not simply the wholesale hatred of women and/or femininity. Toxic mascul…

All this talk about "toxic masculinity" tells me that there's something fundamentally wrong about the whole conversation. Because nobody wants to define what masculinity, healthy masculinity, is supposed to look like in all aspects of life and, most importantly, how it relates to sexuality in general and sexuality with women. I just get the sense that masculinity as a whole is supposed to be toxic.

Indeed. In my opinion, the term is less than ideal because it conflates a complex mixture of awful beliefs and actions - misogyny, internalised misandry, and misandry; and their results in the behaviours of those who hold them.

At the heart of it, my issue with the term is that it places the emphasis on those exhibiting the syndrome, and their need to simply "just stop doing it" as though it were driven by nothing other than personal choice - no matter the personal cost of opposing it, instead of on how we, as a society, can work on eliminating the underlying causes of it. It's clear that the beliefs and behaviours which make up toxic masculinity have to stop - it's better if they never seem to masculine people like the beliefs and/or behaviours are expected in the first place.

I contend that, by placing the focus on the behaviour and not the underlying causes, usage of the term misdirects the efforts those who want to change society to eliminate those behaviours. Worse, it does so in a way which fails to effectively highlight all of their sources and misleads those who don't identify as masculine into thinking they have no way to help or are powerless. This is the opposite of what we as a society want to do. Everyone has power and a role to play in ending toxic masculinity - it's not just people who identify as masculine who need to examine how they contribute to toxic behaviour by masculine individuals; we all do.

We already have words which adequately express the behaviour's underlying causes - sexism and its internalised variants, and we should use them so that we can target our actions and descern our responsibilities in how we can make society better for everyone.

However, I have little hope for this kind of direct language and issue tackling, given the climate of the popular discussion in these regards. It really does require everyone keep watch on how they interact with and treat others, and what messages they might be sending. That's hard work but it's worth it, especially if people can just be people without having to take censure for being themselves, however they decide that should be - especially if it's not harming anyone else.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#150

Post by fanf2 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #125
krapp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But most writers and journalists tend to be on the feminine side of the spectrum because that correlates with verbal ability. Most writers and journalists have traditionally been men, because men have traditionally been considered more trustworthy and intelligent. The cultural stigma against female authorship has been strong enough that they have tended to either publish under male pseudonyms or neutral identities (…

Do you really think JK Rowling's gender has harmed her earning potential? She was outed - if that's the word - as a woman - almost as soon as the books began selling and no one seemed particularly bothered. It seems odd to pick a woman who is a billionaire as evidence of poor earning potential.

She used her initials rather than her given name to get past the hurdle of being published in the first place, while she was a single mum living on government benefits.
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