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The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

aeon.co

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Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#121

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

serpix wrote: post #100
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I am starving, have no money for my interests, and yet have ambitions - and cannot find a fully fullfilling job, are you saying that I will not be able to go to a "bullshit job", because I will be under the impression that sitting at home meditating or looking at trees is more important than getting food through work? That to me sounds like laziness or victim complex, or a couple of other things, but really not…

Your problem starts with having a problem starving. All the rest of your suffering follows from there. If starving for a bit is not a problem then looking at trees is bliss. Laziness/victim complex is impossible unless there is a fundamental desire or conflict against just being in whatever there is. The hypersane/enlightened/realized whatever you call it have no problems whatsoever with what is happening and thus th…

The question was whether they would be able to operate in a society. We did not discuss nor touch whether they suffer or not.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#122

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

oroeo92k wrote: post #72
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it were “gotten” by the masses via Disney shows, we’d all stop chasing it at all. This is such a common thing to think, but why, where is it based on? Why would you think that most people are still "chasing it" disproportionately? If you become enligthened (for the sake of simplicity, let's equate enlightenment with realization that material wealth is not the source of happiness and not the meaning of life) - if…

Edit: I’m too tired to debate, it’s not coming out how I intend, and tbh I don’t really feel any obligation to satisfy you. Getting into a back and forth online in a no stakes social forum is asinine.

It is unfortunate that you see your own development and thinking process (of which debating is a big cornerstone) as something asinine, but it is your right of course. If you do think that, why respond at all?

There is a very legitimate and valueable reason to debate anyone: is to develop your own worldview, beliefs, ability to articulate and learn something new. The worldview, at least a stable functioning one doesn't just come up in our minds by simply watching the world/other speakers, it requires active participation, whether it be simply thinking about the world, writing about it, or yes discussing/debating it with other people which forces you to make your own claims, formulate your thoughts, risk being wrong and ridiculed by other people, developing your language skills, figuring out what you actually think about certain topics, etc.

It is seemingly childish and short-sighted to ignore the value of discussion just because it happens to be through the internet.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#123

Post by chousuke »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #73
ggm wrote: post #58

aeon web write ups feel like an attempt to be super-informative which just .. misses. They always seem to riff on things making a HUGE DEAL about THIS ONE THING which the authors feel WE ALL MISSED and I feel like I am watching a 1960s movie of stoned people.. grooving on the pattern the coffee cup makes on their hand, man.. its all one hole man.. one hole, the hole is not the cup, the hole is .. the HANDLE.. is it j…

> The two line take-away is: care less about material things. Gee.. nobody said that before, 2000+ years ago. Did they? Yes, seriously, how is this news? Every single spiritual teacher, every religion, even every motivational coach will tell you this in the first hours of their teachings. How is this new? Yes, it takes time to integrate it, it is not enough to just read about but what the article is going to integrat…

"Everyone says so" is not sufficient justification to accept something as true. It does indicate that there may be something to be investigated, but I personally can't even begin to believe stuff like this on someone's word alone. Even if it's everyone on Earth but me.

It might be that it's beneficial to "care less about material things", but what does that even mean? I can't just randomly decide how much I care and don't care about something, so what can be done to actually effect that change? What is the mechanism by which it improves my life?

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#124

Post by jdietrich »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #75
checktheorder wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Surprised nobody has yet mentioned Douglas Adams' "Wonko the Sane," who built an asylum turned inside out to house the whole world. Many comedians would qualify as this as well. I'm also thinking of the Terry Pratchett concept of being "knurd". On the Discworld, the opposite of being drunk isn't being sober - sober is the middle ground on the drunk/sober/knurd scale. To be knurd is to be so completely aware of every…

Why would being completely aware of everything not allow one to function in a society if one wanted to? Does it imply that you can't selectively focus on things? Right now if I am to do the dishes, I am already aware of thousands other things and concepts and deep truths about reality, and sciences, etc. etc, but I can focus on this one task, it doesn't matter what I am aware of, if I choose to do it I can do it. How…

>Does it imply that you can't selectively focus on things?

Yes - the ability to focus on one thing necessarily involves the ability to ignore lots of other things. One of the key traits of autism spectrum disorder is an inability to filter out irrelevant information. Constant awareness of everything is often functionally equivalent to a lack of awareness, because it degrades the signal-to-noise ratio of your perception.

For example, the artist Stephen Wiltshire can draw extraordinarily accurate cityscapes from memory, but often struggles with basic tasks. Being aware of the precise number and arrangement of windows in every building you pass is an active impediment if you're just trying to get to the subway station.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2017/04/autism-artis...

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#125

Post by benj111 »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #120
benj111 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say anything about whether he was a good influence. The whole son if god thing just doesn't sit well with being hypersane. And being the son of God is kind of the 'characteristic' of Jesus, it isn't really something you can lay to one side.

You do understand that at the time that he said it the beliefs of people living at that time functioned differently and that claim was more relatable to people than it would be now? And if you would be talking to the people at that time you would need to use their terms, their language, and operate within their belief systems? (Also considering the question of whether Jesus actually said those words, or if that notio…

"the beliefs of people living at that time functioned differently"

What are you suggesting would be a suitable modern day analogue?

If other people are claiming that he's the son of god, rather than he himself, doesn't that also throw the question of hypersanity into question. If you were to claim that I were the son of God, would that not colour everything else you wrote about me? You are at best not a neutral witness.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#126

Post by oldsklgdfth »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #121
serpix wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your problem starts with having a problem starving. All the rest of your suffering follows from there. If starving for a bit is not a problem then looking at trees is bliss. Laziness/victim complex is impossible unless there is a fundamental desire or conflict against just being in whatever there is. The hypersane/enlightened/realized whatever you call it have no problems whatsoever with what is happening and thus th…

The question was whether they would be able to operate in a society. We did not discuss nor touch whether they suffer or not.

I would like to think that a hyper-rational would opt out of society in general. Not relying on the conventional ways of sustenance that we are accustomed to. One example of this is the survivalist, that lives in nature. One could start incrementally moving towards minimalism, acquiring the training and skills to farm and hurt animals and finally step outside of organized society.

This is something I have been thinking about lately. To what extent is technological progress and economic growth truly useful?

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#127

Post by dynamite-ready »

Might be a bit of a tangent, but I was looking at the names referenced to support the article. Temple Grandin, Jung, Jane Goodall, etc...

While I have my doubts about the validity of MBTI testing, I Googled the names, and each of those people appear to tend towards *NFJ types (most likely INFJ).

Not sure if that means anything, just thought it was a fun observation.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#128

Post by tempguy9999 »

I read Lang's bird of paradise when I was a kid and was thoroughly wowed by the fact it was so deep I couldn't understand it. When I grew up I realised long obscure words used to conceal self-indulgent ramblings wasn't a sign of anything good. I can't find an extract of meat of the book, can anyone else?

As someone who also has had, and likely always will have mental health problems, anyone who glorifies that which is fundamentally an illness deserves a good kicking. It's miserable, destructive, isolating and no less a disease than, say, cancer.

Re: The hypersane are among us, if only we are prepared to look

#129

Post by oldsklgdfth »

nlh wrote: post #24
kerkeslager wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 'hypersane' are those among us who have realized, for better or for worse, that the traditional things that most in a society strive for - material wealth, social status, conformity to social structures, etc. - aren't really the keys to happiness and that when you "awaken" (and become hypersane, I suppose) you realize that along with those things come stress, anxiety, the rat race, and, well, a pretty boring ex…

> In reality, all those "realizations" are so mainstream that they show up in Disney movies. and yet...

"On one level, we all know this stuff already. It’s been codified as myths, proverbs, clichés, epigrams, parables; the skeleton of every great story. The whole trick is keeping the truth up front in daily consciousness."

- David Foster Wallace

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