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Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

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Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#11

Post by L_226 »

Arbalest wrote: post #7

The thing I don't like about the move to cashless most, is that it is very much centered around payment systems in the private sector. It makes the middleman compulsory. Our Australian government is moving to make all payments over $10,000AUD cashless only. Thus making middlemen practically compulsory. If government wants to seek their means of deanonymisation for money laundering, make sure that there's an easy way…

> If government wants to seek their means of deanonymisation for money laundering, make sure that there's an easy way to do that without middlemen taking a cut.

Ah, but that would mean their mates at the big 4 would not get their fat bonuses.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#12

Post by krageon »

mullingitover wrote: post #2

This seems silly. Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees and generally enables all sorts of financial shenanigans. Rather than attacking the business, the ACLU should address the structural issues that prevent people from participating in the mainstream economy.

> Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees

It's not unreasonable to assume you live in a normal part of the world where having money doesn't mean you get murdered.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#13

Post by kryptonomist »

I am not an economist, but in this world of negative interest-rates (now common in Europe), another reason for cashless is to prevent people from keeping cash at home, behavior that make sense when the bank is making you pay for having a positive account.

And as a cryptocurrency enthusiast, this cashless trend is also a way to make it harder to hide your crypto assets: hand-to-hand exchange of cash against crypto is indeed one of the best anonymization way.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#14

Post by dzhiurgis »

krageon wrote: post #12
mullingitover wrote: post #2

This seems silly. Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees and generally enables all sorts of financial shenanigans. Rather than attacking the business, the ACLU should address the structural issues that prevent people from participating in the mainstream economy.

> Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees It's not unreasonable to assume you live in a normal part of the world where having money doesn't mean you get murdered.

I've once went to a strip club in Hawaii. Stripper just grab a 1 dollar note and cleaned the strip pole with it.

US dollars are one of the most yucky currencies. First you have 1 dollar note that is pointless at this economy. Then, they are still made of paper. Finally, amount of cash in use is astonishing. From my XP NZ is 99.99% cashless, while Lithuania about 95% (I don't carry any cash tho and ignore business that don't accept cards - they usually are not paying tax).

Also wanted to reiterate how amazingly convenient digital banking has become in EU. I've signed up for Monese - in about 5 minutes of digital verification I've got IBAN account setup and a debit card sent to my home address. That's longer than I had to wait on a phone to get by traditional bank account reactivated.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#15

Post by imtringued »

kryptonomist wrote: post #13

I am not an economist, but in this world of negative interest-rates (now common in Europe), another reason for cashless is to prevent people from keeping cash at home, behavior that make sense when the bank is making you pay for having a positive account. And as a cryptocurrency enthusiast, this cashless trend is also a way to make it harder to hide your crypto assets: hand-to-hand exchange of cash against crypto is…

It's basically a way to make bank runs illegal.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#16

Post by krageon »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #14
krageon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees It's not unreasonable to assume you live in a normal part of the world where having money doesn't mean you get murdered.

I've once went to a strip club in Hawaii. Stripper just grab a 1 dollar note and cleaned the strip pole with it. US dollars are one of the most yucky currencies. First you have 1 dollar note that is pointless at this economy. Then, they are still made of paper. Finally, amount of cash in use is astonishing. From my XP NZ is 99.99% cashless, while Lithuania about 95% (I don't carry any cash tho and ignore business tha…

I am aware of how nice the EU is, but that's not really germane. I was making the point that holding cash does not equal getting killed unless you live in a very bad part of the world.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#17

Post by oliwarner »

Arbalest wrote: post #7

The thing I don't like about the move to cashless most, is that it is very much centered around payment systems in the private sector. It makes the middleman compulsory. Our Australian government is moving to make all payments over $10,000AUD cashless only. Thus making middlemen practically compulsory. If government wants to seek their means of deanonymisation for money laundering, make sure that there's an easy way…

This is slightly better in some places. I can, for instance, issue a Faster Payment to another UK bank account. This takes seconds. It's fast enough for payment transactions. And intermediates like GoCardless make this easier and for very small sums (£2 fixed, no upper limit).

I completely agree though. If your bank's aren't going to guarantee anything tighter than a 3 day turnaround, they're useless here.

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#18

Post by oliwarner »

krageon wrote: post #12
mullingitover wrote: post #2

This seems silly. Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees and generally enables all sorts of financial shenanigans. Rather than attacking the business, the ACLU should address the structural issues that prevent people from participating in the mainstream economy.

> Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees It's not unreasonable to assume you live in a normal part of the world where having money doesn't mean you get murdered.

Cashiers get assaulted —and much worse— all around the world for relatively small sums. Do you suppose they would if there was no cash to steal?

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#19

Post by dredmorbius »

mullingitover wrote: post #9
darth_skywalker wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Accepting cash endangers the lives of employees and generally enables all sorts of financial shenanigans. Financial "shenanigans" seem to be more likely with credit/debit cards actually.

There's something like 2 trillion dollars laundered annually, and a lot of this happens through shops that use anonymous cash transactions to do it.

Source?

Re: Say No to the “Cashless Future” – and to Cashless Stores

#20

Post by newscracker »

Cash is freedom in ways that the "bank payments society" [1] (which people refer to with the euphemism "cashless") can never be. Cash is also resilient in ways that the "bank payments society" cannot be.

"In Praise of Cash" [1] is a fantastic essay on this. HN discussion on that from 2017. [2]

[1]: https://aeon.co/essays/if-plastic-replaces-cash-much-that-is...

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13782561

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