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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#491

Post by pi-rat »

rconti wrote: post #469
pi-rat wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's happening here, my power company has a GraphQL API[1] where I can read my current consumption (5 second resolution), they also offer up the current price, including an indicator of the price level compared to how they see the rest of the day (CHEAP, NORMAL, EXPENSIVE). All houses/apartments in Norway got new smart power meters the last couple of years. They standardized on a data interface (a bus you can conne…

Very cool! I seem to recall first reading about such plans as early as the 90s. It almost certainly wouldn't be allowed most places in the US because regulatory schemes always need approval to change, and it would be considered suspicious and an attempt to hide 'true' costs from the consumer (eg, the power provider can just change the rate any time they want , it will hurt poor people who can't afford these smart app…

In our case the power provider, the to the house line owner and the producer are all separate. My provides buys from the cheapest renewable offered up on NordPool. My fee to the provider is fixed (39 NOK per month). They don't get a cut of the cost per kwh to the producer. If one producer raise their price, they'll just be outbid. If they all raise their prices too much their reservoars will overflow. I pay the market price to the producer from the spot market + some percentage tax/fees to the government + line owner, and a flat fee to the provider.

Makes it hard to get scammed by the power companies/providers I think.

You'll get the current power source from their API or App. ATM I'm getting 100% hydro from "Kvitingen Kraftverk"[1], but that will probably change during the day.

[1]: https://imgur.com/a/2uRhsZ2 or https://imgur.com/a/oXeccnR (ocr translated)

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#492

Post by icebraining »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #398
wffurr wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or build out infrastructure in those areas too. In suburbs, there's plenty of room for separate bike paths and trains. It doesn't require everyone to move into Soviet-style superblocks and towers.

Not everyone can ride bikes, and trains just take you from one place where you don't want to be to another place where you don't want to be.

> Not everyone can ride bikes

And those unfortunate souls will have to buy cars, but the roads will be much less congested now that most are on bike paths. A single free lane is faster than three packed ones.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#493

Post by Brakenshire »

King-Aaron wrote: post #480

This thread seems to be an argument between inner-city people who don't see a need for a car, and people who don't live in a city who can't understand why people in cities don't give a toss about anyone else.

Surely this is a problem specific to cities? Must be unusual for people in suburban or rural areas not to have access to their own parking.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#494

Post by icebraining »

ColanR wrote: post #404
wffurr wrote: post #127

Yet another reason the real answer to the climate crisis isn't EVs - it's public transit, bicycles, e-bikes, scooters, e-scooters, walking, etc. All these other modes are much lower impact on the environment than purchasing and operating an EV, much less an ICE.

It's been entertaining to read the discussions (below) about how to make this practical. So far, it looks like the only way to make this work is to a) live in a city, or rebuild your suburbia into a city, and b) construct your entire life around riding that bike - choose a job with a tolerant boss, spend extra hours every day showering and changing clothes after biking, etc. I'd rather drive an air-conditioned car, s…

> enjoy my private backyard

This is a misconception I see all the time. Living in a city, and even in an apartment, does not preclude having a private backyard. The choices are simply not just "detached house" or "skyscraper".

I live in an apartment, don't own a car, yet I have a private backyard large enough to grow trees or build a decent DIY shop.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#495

Post by WanderPanda »

wang_li wrote: post #417
dylan604 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Lifts are the disruptive technology. They make energetically efficient cities possible and cheap. Are lifts really as efficient as escalators? An escalator is constantly moving (unless it's malfunctioning), so there is no wait to continue moving. An elevator on the other hand is not. Maybe it depends on the number of floors? I can see an elevator being faster going from ground to floor 40 rather than zig zagging flo…

Escalators in Incheon airport start when you approach and stop when you exit.

In Germany most of them also stop (and sometimes fail to start when you approach...)

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#496

Post by jfk13 »

duckymcduckface wrote: post #425
dragonwriter wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are lifts really as efficient as escalators? I wouldn't be surprised. > An escalator is constantly moving (unless it's malfunctioning), so there is no wait to continue moving. That wastes energy but makes it time efficient for users (in terms of latency). OTOH, escalators are slow compared to most lifts/elevators, which means total trip time efficiency isn't good unless you are only going a floor or two or are comp…

They're more efficient because of reduced frictional losses, the contact point of an elevator is a pulley at the top of shaft and a couple guide rails. The guide rails are mostly there to provide lateral support. As for latency you can design around it, modern tall buildings will usually have multiple elevator banks that service different floors. A lot of engineering can go into designing the dispatching for elevator…

That reminds me of https://play.elevatorsaga.com. Have fun!

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#497

Post by King-Aaron »

Brakenshire wrote: post #493
King-Aaron wrote: post #480

This thread seems to be an argument between inner-city people who don't see a need for a car, and people who don't live in a city who can't understand why people in cities don't give a toss about anyone else.

Surely this is a problem specific to cities? Must be unusual for people in suburban or rural areas not to have access to their own parking.

The article at hand - agreed - is a city-centric topic in itself. What I'm getting at is the borderline aggression within the thread here.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#498

Post by adrianN »

NullPrefix wrote: post #99
duskwuff wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, keep in mind my numbers are assuming a large, perfectly efficient solar panel under ideal conditions. Realistic numbers will be much worse. For example, most commercially available solar panels are 20-25% efficient.

1.3kW/m^2 * 20% efficiency = 260w/m^2 260w/m^2 * 5m^2 = 1.3kW 1.3kW * 4 hours daily sun = 5.2kW/day 265 miles range / 85kW full charge capacity = 3.1 miles/kW 5.2kW/day * 3.1 miles/kW = 16.12 miles / day Still sounds too good, what did I miss?

Affordable solar panels don't get 260W/m^2 peak. The solar panels on a car don't track the sun, so average power output is way below peak.

You don't get 1.3kW per square meter for 4 hours a day. 42,339 MW of PV installations produced 39,401 GWh of energy in 2017 in Germany[1], so on average you get peak power for just two hours a day with panels that are angled appropriately.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Germany#Statist...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#499

Post by Anzene »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #20

This is why we need standard, swappable battery packs. You pull into a "filling station" and a robot pulls your used pack and pops in a new one. 5 minutes, in and out. Sad thing is, this isn't a new idea. People just don't seem to want it.

My personal opinion is that for cars may be asking too much from the manufacturer to invest, unless they come together and do a consortium thing (like the SD card standardization).

Else, it does make sense for slow, light electric vehicles (SLEVs) such as e-scooters, e-motorcycles, e-bikes to reduce the range anxiety when the users take the SLEVs out, as form factor can be more easily adapted.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#500

Post by Moru »

dylan604 wrote: post #366
nextos wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some cities in mainland Europe are like this already. They make cars unnecessary. Even bikes, as you can walk everywhere. I'm talking about midsized cities (100-300k inhabitants) that are really compact thanks to 4-8 levels in every apartment block and ubiquitous use of lifts. Lifts are the disruptive technology. They make energetically efficient cities possible and cheap. I also find these cities much more nice to l…

>Lifts are the disruptive technology. They make energetically efficient cities possible and cheap. Are lifts really as efficient as escalators? An escalator is constantly moving (unless it's malfunctioning), so there is no wait to continue moving. An elevator on the other hand is not. Maybe it depends on the number of floors? I can see an elevator being faster going from ground to floor 40 rather than zig zagging flo…

Our hospital used to have lifts that didn't stop at floors. The had no doors, you just jump on them and get off. They were intended for staff only, to quickly get between floors so slightly out of view of the public. They were replaced a few years ago though. Mabe too many accidents?
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