Anxiety Looks Different in Men • Hacker News Board

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#101

Post by ps101 » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:07 AM UTC

scrungus wrote: post #80

bitcurious wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To fix the problem it would be better to address the causes of the stress instead of trying to just treat symptoms. The effect of depression, anxiety, and a host of other mental illnesses is that they prevent you from taking steps to address the addressable issues in your life. To start exercising while depressed, to start socializing while suffering from anxiety, etc., are some of the hardest things to do. That’s…

do you think that, in general, medication is successful in improving the agency of it's users? i worry that medication harbors a reliance on drugs, and facilitates growth of a society in which drug-use is necessary to participate "normally". if someone with ADD/ADHD has an opportunity to increase their agency, do you think that would increase their quality of life? the parent commenter suggested that mental illness (…

> i worry that medication harbors a reliance on drugs

It can also get you out of bed when nothing else does. Or prevent you from killing yourself when you otherwise would have. Or give you a push to take small steps to get your life together. All of these effects are valuable despite efficacy being far from 100%, there being side effects and issues with reliance.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#102

Post by krapp » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:13 AM UTC

lazyasciiart wrote: post #97

plutonorm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I had a serious anxiety condition since childhood. But my parents were so disgusted by my fear that they made me dissociate from it. I went to doctors and said something is wrong, they asked, what? And I could not answer because I could no longer feel my fear. I went for 30 years without knowing my problem. Society has a serious attitude problem towards men and it is seriously damaging a huge number of people.

> Society has a serious attitude problem towards men and it is seriously damaging a huge number of people. As I understand it, this is what “toxic masculinity” is supposed to mean.

The only thing that toxic masculinity is supposed to mean is that there are aspects of traditional masculine norms which can manifest in harmful ways in modern society.

For instance, men often have difficulty seeking help for mental or emotional health issues, because traditional masculine identity requires men to be stoic and independent of emotional connection - such needs are considered feminine, and a weakness when displayed in men. That would be an example of toxic masculinity.

To continue from a now deleted reply - toxic masculinity is not internalized misandry. Misandry is a hatred of men. Toxic masculinity is not, nor does it derive from, a hatred of men. If one acknowledges that masculine identity and masculine culture exist, and that men have unique social, mental and emotional issues which derive in part from the expectations that society has of men, then one should be able to find the definition of toxic masculinity where these intersect, because the expectations that society has of men are defined, in large part, by men, themselves.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#103

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:22 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #102

lazyasciiart wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society has a serious attitude problem towards men and it is seriously damaging a huge number of people. As I understand it, this is what “toxic masculinity” is supposed to mean.

The only thing that toxic masculinity is supposed to mean is that there are aspects of traditional masculine norms which can manifest in harmful ways in modern society. For instance, men often have difficulty seeking help for mental or emotional health issues, because traditional masculine identity requires men to be stoic and independent of emotional connection - such needs are considered feminine, and a weakness wh…

[deleted]

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#104

Post by dnh44 » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:31 AM UTC

tachyonbeam wrote: post #67

phist_mcgee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a really insightful comment. I had never thought of it from that perspective. I like to view culture as a layer on top of our instinct and natural proclivity for certain behaviours. Men's choice to exhibit or inhibit their anxiety probably would have dictated mating behaviour. No mate would choose another that visibly responded to fears that weren't real. So an adaption would be the redirection of that anxiety i…

Evolutionary psychology says that women are looking for men who have the characteristics of a strong leader. That means assertiveness, calm, self-confidence, happiness, etc. If you look around, that seems to be very much true. I don't think women are necessarily paying that much attention to wealth, but it definitely seems like they are drawn to confident and charismatic men. Men on the other hand, don't seem to mind…

> My self-esteem was shattered for a week afterwards. I think I obviously need to pick kinder women to go on dates with.

Based on what you've written, I'm not convinced her behaviour was all that unkind. At least you received honest feedback which I think is kind. Consider the social norms of the society you live in and then consider the impact to her self-esteem your lack of initiative had.

I say this as someone who had the exact same problem with shyness. Don't get me wrong, shyness is nice, but shyness can stop you from doing all the things in life you'd like to.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#105

Post by agent008t » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:36 AM UTC

n_u_l_l wrote: post #68

jdsfighter wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was only recently diagnosed with anxiety after spending thousands and thousands on an emergency room visit and visits to a cardiologist, and I work for a healthcare company with free access to GPs! I had a variety of symptoms and none of them immediately seemed to shout "anxiety" to my physicians. I was given dozens of blood screenings, X-Rays, CT Scans, EKGs, Echocardiograms, stress tests, sleep studies, only to b…

Thank you for writing this. Last December I started getting some kind of weird 'fog' in my head. I didn't take it seriously when it first started and thought it would go away on its own. But instead it became worse and I got severely cognitively impaired. My speech got slow, I forgot basic words, I forgot names of people I knew, my logical thinking was impaired. It improved a little bit but I'm still incredibly cogni…

Did you by any chance get tested for glandular fever?

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#106

Post by schalab » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

furyofantares wrote: post #45

I’ve thought about this a bit. I don’t have anger issues but I have anxiety issues and I spent decades not understanding that I experienced anxiety. In my experience, the culture tells men to exhibit strength and show no weakness. What counts as strength/weakness has changed over time and varies depending on your social groups — it’s not just the stuff associated with typically masculine values, but it also shows up…

I dont think its a cultural thing. Men on average show less empathy and emotion than women. For obvious reasons, child rearing vs hunting.

But most writers and journalists tend to be on the feminine side of the spectrum because that correlates with verbal ability. So this theory has emerged that most men are actually just as emotional as women but are hiding their feelings because society expects them to do it.

Maybe a fringe of men who are all co-incidentally in persuasive fields in academia, entertainment and media exhibit this, but the average male may not.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#107

Post by trabant00 » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:39 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #66

spaceprison wrote: post #52

This is a great article. For years I didn't know how to handle anxiety so I handled it "like a man" which lead to a pretty decent drinking habit. Now that I've stopped drinking and being open about what's going on with me, my anxiety looks like traditional anxiety which was easy for my gp to help diagnose. Taking the leap to be open and get help was the best thing to happen to me in years.

For this audience, I would add that anxiety is in some sense often a career positive. During the years I spent as a sysadmin, the continuous feeling that something was about to gowrong and I really needed to prepare for it was useful to my employers. Even if it was bad for me, my relationships, and my physical health.

Same job, same problem. The solution was to understand that I am not really helping anyone. I'm just hiding problems and helping incompetents make money and stay in the market when they deserve to fail.

So my new approach: fix it and make it public once, let it fail afterwards if nobody cares.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#108

Post by godid » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:41 AM UTC

fizzledbits wrote: post #23

gavia1 wrote: post #2

This surprises me as a male who suffers from anxiety and exhibits none of these symptoms. To be more specific my anxiety manifests as a feeling of unease, sometimes fear; and at times blends in with OCD where I become unsure of my short term memory and whether or not something did or did not happen.

Much the same experience here, including the difficulty with memory which I find to be the most insidious thing. What have you found helps it, if you don't mind me asking?

Not the OP but I would describe my anxiety in identical terms.

When I feel the doubt about past memories/decisions start to creep, I whip out my phone and make some brief notes (usually keep one document per trigger). I will just write a few bullet points detailing what facts I am sure of right now along with the reassurances I am telling myself in that moment.

Then, next time it happens I open the same note, read my previous thoughts and relax into it knowing I’ve been here before.

I suppose it’s just an anxiety journal, nothing novel, but it works for me. Over time as I accumulate more facts the effect sort of compounds and simply knowing I’ve got the notes is enough to push the anxiety away.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#109

Post by wvh » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 9:06 AM UTC

nutjob2 wrote: post #27

gavia1 wrote: post #2

This surprises me as a male who suffers from anxiety and exhibits none of these symptoms. To be more specific my anxiety manifests as a feeling of unease, sometimes fear; and at times blends in with OCD where I become unsure of my short term memory and whether or not something did or did not happen.

Everyone is different I guess, but here's an example from my experience as someone with pretty bad GED. For whatever reason, I don't like crowded, enclosed spaces such as busy supermarkets. I don't feel fear and don't feel threatened by environment, but I do get irrationally irritated to the point of getting quite aggressive. After taking CBD for anxiety I found that I was much more relaxed and just ignored other peo…

I can relate to this fight/flight response in crowded spaces myself, and how my SO and I might have very similar feelings expressed in completely opposite ways.

We tend to send one kind of reaction to the psychologist, and the other to jail (I guess it ties to self-harm versus potential harm to others).

I think society and psychology define or at least frame certain words in a way they apply more to one gender, not unlike how traditional autism definitions tend to omit a lot of female autistic behaviour.

Ironically enough, getting in touch with my aggression, doing lots of sports and being very fit makes me feel more relaxed and able to handle situations that would have made me "anxious" in my early 20's.

I feel "masculinity" has been somewhat under attack for many years now and it might very well be that for many men embracing male aggression and drive so it can be incorporated into society in a useful manner or through positive outlets would be a much better solution than repressing male urges and demonising them. If the main party line for male problems is "get in touch with your female side" and pretending you're something you are not, I see that doing more harm than good for a lot of men. Allowing men (their natural impulse?) to feel strong, capable, in control and even aggressive might actually make them less violent in ways detrimental to society.

Re: Anxiety Looks Different in Men

#110

Post by habnds » Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 9:15 AM UTC

klipt wrote: post #98

lazyasciiart wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Society has a serious attitude problem towards men and it is seriously damaging a huge number of people. As I understand it, this is what “toxic masculinity” is supposed to mean.

That just sounds like misandry. Society has an attitude problem with women in some respects too, but people just call it misogyny, not "toxic femininity" or whatever. Being consistent with terminology is sadly underrated.

in many ways isn't it two sides of the same coin?