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The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

nationalgeographic.com

71–80 of 193 posts

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#71
post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

Producing GMO food isn’t science. It’s engineering.

Science seeks to test new theories about the nature of reality, to improve human knowledge. It often relies on engineering to conduct experiment.

Engineering is for solving human problems at scale. Often based on scientific discovery, but not necessarily. Humans were selectively breeding food for years with no scientific theory of plant genetics.

And we kind of do not have the best track record with engineering things we can’t be sure of in the lab. Generally we do ok with tech, but bio engineering is much different.

What’s more the food industry has lied about what’s healthy for profit in the past. We have a habit of passing the buck to the next generation to cash out now.

Human avarice is enough for me to be against GMO given the plain track record (global warming, aforementioned lies by food producers, etc) of bullshit that was only found to be bullshit later.

That and I hate bananas.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#73
"The banana is one step closer to disappearing" - seems to be overstating it. They mean the Cavendish Banana and therefore large scale Banana cultivation. However we could still have a variety of bananas, lower scale and have banana be more of a treat than a common food.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#74
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that people should rely on science when determining the safety of food products, it's disingenuous to imply that selective breeding and GMO are the same thing, as it ignores the fact that many if not most GMO foods are transgenic with genes from other species and even kingdoms of life that would never find their way into the genome through selective breeding.

But you don't know that. Maybe they would randomly get that mutation in some generation that we would then breed for. All we're doing is speeding that up with science.

Probably only on a million year time frame. We've coated a decent portion of the Earth's crust in crops. It's all being irradiated by the sun all day long, decade after decade, but the mutations people want aren't always appearing naturally. Some changes appear to be extremely unlikely.

Which is probably good, or we'd all probably get weird cases of allergies from strange plant mutations.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#75
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty up to date on the science myself, and I still consider myself anti-GMO for a host of reasons, little to do with the science. My objections are more philosophical. two primary reasons: hubris and greed. The hubris to think we know which varietals are the best and will continue to be the best. We may go all in on one species or variant and then turns out an unknown bacteria we have previously no clue about w…

My biggest concern is similar, that a GMO banana is intellectual property and I detest the thought of large companies preventing people from growing their own food.

The most likely way large companies would prevent people from growing bananas would be by not making GMO bananas, and just letting disease ruin all the other varieties (if some varieties were resistant, then how could the existence of GMO versions prevent people from growing those?)

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One alternative to GMO is to irradiate your organism until it randomly develops a mutation you like. It's not "GMO" and isn't labeled as such, because it doesn't involve the same technical steps as inserting a fish gene into a tomato, or whatever, but you end up with an organism with de novo mutations that do... well, something , probably many things, and if you're lucky, something you want, that you can then use sel…

I think one thing people are worried about is simply unintended consequences. Humans have always had confidence of mastery over nature and more often than not we screw it up.

I think people are using irrational thought processes to come to nonsensical conclusions. The anti-GMO business is feeling over reason.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#77
post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

Transgenics is nothing like plant or animal husbandry. Your reductive head-pat is not only a deeply condescending Appeal to Authority, it's also lying.

The majority of the people 'afraid' of GMO are thinking of transgenics, not selective pressure. Some of the people thinking about selective breeding also have a point about loss of diversity (see corn and cutworms). You have to go all the way to the far end of the spectrum to find people like you're describing, which essentially makes it a strawman.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#78

"The banana is one step closer to disappearing" - seems to be overstating it. They mean the Cavendish Banana and therefore large scale Banana cultivation. However we could still have a variety of bananas, lower scale and have banana be more of a treat than a common food.

>>However we could still have a variety of bananas, lower scale and have banana be more of a treat than a common food.

Those that could afford the $XX / lbs price would.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO"* Not really. The difference is that selective breeding takes a lot of time and for the species that we eat today we've had hundreds to thousands of years to observe if it harms us or not. When new drugs or foods get approved for consumption, the tests being made are for how our body affect the eaten food, and the assessment…

I get that, but it's not like the body isn't accustomed to a wide range of food inputs. We know what chemical structures are deeply harmful to the body and what are digestible; assuming GMO variants are not totally different from the original we can rely on heuristics to determine their toxicity, can't we? It seems a little silly to outright dismiss GMO foods as long as they do not deviate too far from their parents

>We know what chemical structures are deeply harmful to the body and what are digestible

No we don't, we only really start looking at new kinds of toxins when they start affecting us.

GMO have one or many gene flipped, as a result many things are affected at once but genetic engineers/companies will look at optimising what interests them and ignoring the rest of the effect for the sake of cost cutting/simplification/shorter time to market. (These things have affected civil engineering companies too, which make your bridges dangerous but bridges are much simpler to reason compared to a multicellular organism like plants and bridges don't reproduce or evolve on their own. The seeds will not be picked by intercontinental birds and dropped somewhere where they start displacing local varieties or evolve into something dangerous (toxic?) for humans. While bridges have small life, genetic modification can survive for a very long time.

Some changes induced by GMO process will take long time test.

By that time it would have spread to billions of humans, thanks to modern industrial process and globalization.

Heck, we can't reliably alter genes in humans which makes them taller then how can you be sure of GMO crops?

Genetic engineers look at correlations in genes then they try to flip some of them randomly and if they observe positive change in the feature they are optimizing, they call it success if it doesn't produce immediate negative effects.

GMO variety also isn't sterile, so it might evolve into something dangerous. Why it shouldn't? The genetic history of the plant which stopped it from being toxic to humans, encoded in its genes has now been edited out by genetic engineers.

GMO come from flawed understanding of how genes work. Most GMO supporters claim that the nutations we are inducing through GMO process are also capable of happening in nature on its own.

Sure, but genes not just carry info of function but genetic history too that's how we remember how to fight viruses/backterias. A person who has been burned by keep their hand on flame will not try the same second time, same way a planet which has mutated in past in favour of something which made it resistant and survive in nature will select against the feature which made it survive.

GMO people think mutations happen at random, without any peeking at past mutations (genetic history) which is incorrect assumption.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#80

"The banana is one step closer to disappearing" - seems to be overstating it. They mean the Cavendish Banana and therefore large scale Banana cultivation. However we could still have a variety of bananas, lower scale and have banana be more of a treat than a common food.

>> However we could still have a variety of bananas, lower scale and have banana be more of a treat than a common food. Those that could afford the $XX / lbs price would.

It wouldn't be the only food like this, and nutritionally I think people can survive without bananas.

I'd miss em though. Nothing like frozen banana + milk blended.

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