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The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#31

Post by Fr0styMatt88 »

jedberg wrote: post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

I wonder how that sentiment will change when people have no other choice. I can imagine now that it’s easy to say no to GMO bananas because there are still other varieties; it’s not something that people may see as directly affecting them. I think it’ll be a different story if non-GMO bananas become crazy expensive or non-existent.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#32

Post by ksaj »

jedberg wrote: post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

We bred bananas to be like they are, and then used clones thereafter. They never looked like Cavendish in nature. There is nothing stopping banana breeders from doing it again. And now we're stuck with a mono culture.

Why? Because there is something stopping the production of varietals.

Patents are stopping advancements from happening. Just like with corn, except things are worse with bananas.

That's the real problem. Not GMO or whatever other straw man. Mono-species fail in the end, and then we create new technologies to cover for it, instead of simply breeding new variants within the species - because patents and profitable monocultures.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#33

Post by latchkey »

JackDrury wrote: post #26
latchkey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently live in Vietnam, but was recently traveling around Laos by motorbike. The bananas there are almost inedible... they taste awful. I found it fascinating how different they were compared with Vietnamese bananas. That said, I saw huge fields of farmed trees literally everywhere there (as well as in VN). I don't think they are in any real danger of disappearing like these articles say. It is very sensationali…

Are you sure they weren't cooking bananas (plantains)?

Yes

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#34

Post by latchkey »

himlion wrote: post #27
latchkey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently live in Vietnam, but was recently traveling around Laos by motorbike. The bananas there are almost inedible... they taste awful. I found it fascinating how different they were compared with Vietnamese bananas. That said, I saw huge fields of farmed trees literally everywhere there (as well as in VN). I don't think they are in any real danger of disappearing like these articles say. It is very sensationali…

Interesting, I was just going to say how varied and incredibly tasty the local Lao bananas are. I wonder if we have different taste or you've tried different ones than I have. The ones I like best are the very small "good smelling bananas" (ກ້ວຍຫອມ).

I found that when you first bite into the outside, it was good, but as you got into the center, it had a very bad taste that ruined the experience of the outside. It was a weird and totally unexpected thing for me since I normally love bananas. I tried stopping at several different vendors (stands) on the roadside to make sure it wasn't just one. I was mostly north of Vientiane, so maybe the southern ones are better.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#35

Post by echelon »

ksaj wrote: post #32
jedberg wrote: post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

We bred bananas to be like they are, and then used clones thereafter. They never looked like Cavendish in nature. There is nothing stopping banana breeders from doing it again. And now we're stuck with a mono culture. Why? Because there is something stopping the production of varietals. Patents are stopping advancements from happening. Just like with corn, except things are worse with bananas. That's the real problem…

> Patents are stopping variety from happening. Just like with corn, except things are worse with bananas.

How can the patents not have already expired? Bananas have been the same roughly all of my life, unless I'm wildly misremembering. Surely there is no way the Cavendish is still protected by patents.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#36

Post by icxa »

jedberg wrote: post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

I'm pretty up to date on the science myself, and I still consider myself anti-GMO for a host of reasons, little to do with the science. My objections are more philosophical.

two primary reasons: hubris and greed.

The hubris to think we know which varietals are the best and will continue to be the best. We may go all in on one species or variant and then turns out an unknown bacteria we have previously no clue about wipes out all of them. You never know, you need variety. Bacteria outnumber us all.

number two: greed. You worried about tech being consolidated into the big 5? how about this scientific research? you want our food, something we actually depend on, to be consolidated into 2-3 chemical companies? I don't.

Smaller reasons include: the power of being able to still survive on pure nature's means, and the freedom to do so. We don't realize it, but these things we do out here in the more advanced nations greatly impact the developing world, where a large portion of the world's population exists.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#37

Post by ksaj »

echelon wrote: post #35
ksaj wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We bred bananas to be like they are, and then used clones thereafter. They never looked like Cavendish in nature. There is nothing stopping banana breeders from doing it again. And now we're stuck with a mono culture. Why? Because there is something stopping the production of varietals. Patents are stopping advancements from happening. Just like with corn, except things are worse with bananas. That's the real problem…

> Patents are stopping variety from happening. Just like with corn, except things are worse with bananas. How can the patents not have already expired? Bananas have been the same roughly all of my life, unless I'm wildly misremembering. Surely there is no way the Cavendish is still protected by patents.

Mostly the damage is already done. But at least there are new cultivars coming out sooner or later. Here's one: https://patents.justia.com/patent/PP28625

But how new is it? As I've alluded (it would take a full article to really get into this), even this new cultivar is... Cavendish. And it's patented. Just like all the other Cavendish bananas that comprise the only bananas you can ever find unless you happen to live in Southeast Asia and can find them in the wild.

BTW: Bananas you remember are not the bananas your grandparents would remember. There's a long history. The monoculture of bananas is fairly recent in terms of history, but for you and I, we've only ever known Cavendish.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#39

Post by colordrops »

jedberg wrote: post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

While I agree that people should rely on science when determining the safety of food products, it's disingenuous to imply that selective breeding and GMO are the same thing, as it ignores the fact that many if not most GMO foods are transgenic with genes from other species and even kingdoms of life that would never find their way into the genome through selective breeding.

Re: The fungus that devastates the Cavendish banana has now arrived in Latin America

#40

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

jedberg wrote: post #28

> Other scientists—most notably, James Dale of the Queensland University of Technology in Australia—are testing genetically modified disease-resistant Cavendish bananas, but public acceptance of GMOs could prove a significant obstacle to their widespread adoption. This is the problem right here. The lack of science education. A banana modified in a lab and one that is bred through selective breeding are both "GMO", i…

I understand the idea of selective breeding but GMO is more than that. It's very possible to move genes from very different organisms that would never be possible via selective breeding. The ones that come to mind are the glow in the dark organisms that used genes from 2 different types of animals that could never breed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCPtDVnaQ1w

So no GMO does not equal selective breeding.

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