To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…
GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
201–210 of 248 posts
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your replies are mostly hostile, sadly. The electric vehicle "future" has yet to identify how to handle this. The charging infrastructure is incredibly weak unless you have a garage with a charger installed. A lot of people rent or have a small plot of land w/o a garage and they park on the street. The public charging infrastructure outside of California cities is weak. There are very few fast chargers, and the elect…
But isn't this pretty obviously identifiable as a "chicken and egg" problem? You say "The electric vehicle "future" has yet to identify how to handle this", but I totally disagree. In Austin it costs $4.17 a month for unlimited charging at public charging stations, and there are a lot of them: https://austinenergy.com/ae/green-power/plug-in-austin/charg... . It's not hard to imagine that if the number of EVs goes to…
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System#Versi...
Until then, I hope that hybrids will be an option.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#203My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?
Do they have a front yard? I'd price out the cost to trench to a NEMA 6-15 (240v/15a) socket on a pole near the curb where they park. This will get you 3.6kW using the ubiquitous gauge (read: cheap) electrical wiring, which will give a Hyundai Kona about 12 miles per hour of charging. More than adequate as a daily driver, and they can always hit a rapid charge station on the rare event that they drive more than 120 o…
Second, having a cord across the sidewalk is a tripping hazard and illegal:
* https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/09/01/toronto-electric...
* https://archive.is/29o0a (in case)
Third: street parking is common, so even if the above two items were not a problem, there is no guarantee that there would be a space in front of their place.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Lotus designed Roadster One of these passed me on the highway the other day. I've only seen a handful of Lotus in my life and never a Tesla Roadster.. it really is a beautiful little car. Pretty small (and impractical for cargo/passengers I'd imagine) though.
“Simplify, then add lightness” Chapman, Colin. The Lotus philosophy is to create small lightweighted sport cars, after all.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#205To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…
Buy a BMW i3 used; they go for sub-20k. I live in Colorado and it’s fine all year round. If you need to drive more than 120 miles in a day then yes this is still impractical, otherwise it’s the best bargain in EV land and a fun car to jet around town in.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#206To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…
Buy a BMW i3 used; they go for sub-20k. I live in Colorado and it’s fine all year round. If you need to drive more than 120 miles in a day then yes this is still impractical, otherwise it’s the best bargain in EV land and a fun car to jet around town in.
How does it do on potholes? And on ice?
I really wanted to love the i3, but the bicycle tires looked liked they'd be fundamentally unsafe on the ice or on any unmaintained (pothole-filled) road.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do they have a front yard? I'd price out the cost to trench to a NEMA 6-15 (240v/15a) socket on a pole near the curb where they park. This will get you 3.6kW using the ubiquitous gauge (read: cheap) electrical wiring, which will give a Hyundai Kona about 12 miles per hour of charging. More than adequate as a daily driver, and they can always hit a rapid charge station on the rare event that they drive more than 120 o…
That won't work for a few reasons: first, it's a one-way street, and parking is on the side that they are not on. Second, having a cord across the sidewalk is a tripping hazard and illegal: * https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/09/01/toronto-electric... * https://archive.is/29o0a (in case) Third: street parking is common, so even if the above two items were not a problem, there is no guarantee that there would be a…
There's no reason they couldn't spring for a PHEV though and opportunistically charge where they can while out shopping or whatever. Every little bit helps.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Things made as a result of cynical box-ticking are never good. The original versions of the Fiat 500 itself, the Morris Mini, the Beetle, and the 2CV would disagree. Ok, you might have a point on the 2CV, but it's owners loved it.
How was the original 500 “box-ticking”? It changed the company.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Simplify, then add lightness” Chapman, Colin. The Lotus philosophy is to create small lightweighted sport cars, after all.
They also innovated, one example was the side skirts used on their black and gold JPS F1 car in the late 70's or 80's. The side skirts gave greater down force when going around corners, its also a discreet way to improve handling on todays road cars as the FIA regs no longer permit the side skirts. BBC TopGear covered this in their last episode.
Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
I firmly believe this was done on purpose. They knew what they were doing by making it look like a tonka toy. EVs were just a write-off attempt by GM that didn't get the gov backing they wanted, so they made sure production remained low by making the cars hideous.
That seems unlikely considering how much engineering effort GM put into the Volt. It wasn't just a compliance car, at least not at first. If they expected it to fail they would have minimized that investment and half-assed it. When GM started Volt development in about 2006, sedans were still popular and the Toyota Prius was selling relatively well. So I think GM just failed to anticipate the market shift.
About 20 years ago, the classic The Innovator's Dilemma came out. Included was a chapter based on a report the author had done for the auto industry back in the 1990s. On existing technology curves he found that mass market electric cars for the American model should become commercially viable around 2020, and in the next several years after that would become dominant. Until then it was a bad business to be in, and after that success was imperative for any car manufacturer that wants to remain in business.
The same author in that book and its follow-up The Innovator's Solution said that conventional car manufacturers would come up with hybrid cars first, but that route would lose to fully electric. Exactly how sailing ship companies came up with hybrid steam/sailing ships (go under steam for short trips, and you have sails if you run out of coal on a long trip), but all manufacturers who invested in that lost.
GM's actions show that they understood a lot of the message of those books. They worked on hybrid cars once that was commercially feasible, and put in the effort to figure out how to make good electric cars. They did this knowing that the technology wasn't yet commercially viable. They have declared that their future is electric only, and are explicitly avoiding committing to the tempting hybrid mistake.
That said, it remains to be seen whether they are committing another mistake pointed out in The Innovator's Solution. Which is that they are trying to make the switch without doing it as a spinoff, without separating the companies, and trying to leverage existing dealer networks. Which opens them to the problem that dealers have come to expect maintenance costs as a big part of their profit model, and therefore will try to steer customers away from electric, or will try to charge extra to stay in business. If GM can't resolve this conflict, they will fail.