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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#341

Post by pi-rat »

chc wrote: post #177
kennywinker wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sitting twidding your thumbs. If they are near somewhere you want to be recreationally, you’re set. The gym, the grocery store, the movies, a hiking trail, spending 1-4 hours at one of these once a week would likely enhance your life not take away from it.

If your solution to the difficulty of finding an EV charger is "put EV chargers literally everywhere," that would hypothetically solve the problem, but how do you propose to make that happen? That's what the question here is.

Here in Norway the cities and government offer(ed) subsidies to build EV chargers where it’s needed. (About $3000 for a public dual AC charger, or $22000 per triple DC fast charger)

We’re slowly but surely moving towards “chargers literally everywhere”.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#342

Post by pi-rat »

chc wrote: post #299
kennywinker wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I, as a business owner, can get 1-4 hours of your time and spending money - it’s probably going to be well worth it to front the cost of land and charging equipment for a park-n-charge spot

And yet business owners aren't rushing to install chargers, even in places where I'll regularly see a bunch of EVs on my way through the parking lot. So that theory doesn't seem to pan out.

Here in Norway they do (about 50% of new cars are electric, so there’s always someone in need of charging)

The local convenience store might have 1 or 2[1], big shops like IKEA might have 20+ free AC charging spots, and 5-6+ DC fast chargers[2] (costs money).

[1]: https://www.google.com/maps/@60.3579898,5.3582122,3a,42.9y,9...

[2]: https://www.google.com/maps/@60.4750298,5.3308811,3a,75y,23....

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#343

Post by colechristensen »

opportune wrote: post #233
colechristensen wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? Housing costs seem to scale to the maximum that the population can pay, and people are willing to accept housing which is a little less than they think they need for a little more than they think they can afford. Generations of this have people growing up wanting what is "normal" and accepting a little less, each generation's normal…

Actually, houses are getting larger by square footage over time, although not sure about lot size. And peak population won't necessarily create a housing crash everywhere. As long as urbanization continues, it could just slow the growth of cities.

Houses are only getting larger for (often enormous) suburban houses in new developments, not for apartments or redeveloped houses in existing neighborhoods.

The pressure against urbanization is going to continue growing as long as the quality of life (esp apartment size) decreases in urbanized areas.

I have lived in a few excellent urban neighborhoods with very strange demographics resulting from the lack of variety in housing sizes. You saw very many young people and a lesser but solid presence of long-present middle age to elderly people but no families with children older than a year or two.

The neighborhoods were very livable until you had children and needed space, then you either had to be earning way above average salary or live packed in like sardines because the fancy new construction was only small apartments.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#344

Post by 693471 »

jedberg wrote: post #121
oh_hello wrote: post #114

I always thought this was a big problem for EVs, but recently came to think nightly charging might not matter so much for these drivers. If an urban apartment dweller has an EV with 200+ miles of range, can't a public fast charger be used once or twice a week instead? I lived in an apartment with a ~200 mile range ICE car and filled it less than once a week.

Filling your car at the gas station is a five minute stop on the way home. Filing your electric car is at least an hour if you have a DC fast charger and that gets you only 80% full. To get totally full, it would take a multi-hour stop.

Only takes 15 minutes to go from 0-40% in a Tesla Model 3 Long Range (310 miles max) at a superCharger, and full is only about an hour because the last 20% is slow.

You can hit another charger 2 hours down the road after that 15 minute charge and plug in for 5-10 minutes to get to the next charger if needed. It will be ready after you're done taking a bathroom break and you bought a snack.

Few people need to charge to 100% on a road trip if they have a good EV. Tesla did the right thing with their design. Everyone else should catch up.

Imagine if GM cars only came with 5 gallon gas tanks but the Audi came with a 15 gallon tank. That's basically what we're talking about. Don't shit on EVs because only one company is doing it correctly.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#345

Post by wffurr »

mises wrote: post #306
wffurr wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't put the kids on the ebike to daycare? Seems like that would be faster and easier than dealing with a car. Just wait until you start in on the total mess that is school drop-off when every parent decides they have to drive their kid to school. Much faster to breeze past the stopped traffic on a bicycle, unstrap the kids and send them on their way, and bike to the train.

Not every one has only two kids. It's going to get awfully tough for those with four or five without a minivan.

https://bikeportland.org/2012/06/28/with-six-kids-and-no-car...

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#346

Post by esotericn »

neogodless wrote: post #160
gok wrote: post #122

I live in a high rise apartment with three shared level 2 chargers in the garage. I would say there are ~10 EVs in the building and sharing the chargers has never been an issue. It's like shared laundry; you really only need it once a week or so for a few hours. Once it's easy to make people pay for electricity, adding lots of chargers will be a no-brainer for garage owners.

Laundry. That just might be the perfect example. What a huge division of experience between the wealthy and the less wealthy. Most homeowners have laundry in their home. Starting and switching loads is a few minutes, and the rest of their time is still free. Many high-end apartments have laundry within a short walk from each residence. It's largely the same experience. But then those with less ability to afford "nice…

You're right, but ultimately, this just points to apartment living being basically a hack that is only acceptable for the poor, and some very specific prestige situations (e.g. the alpha cities; a flat in London is 'special' because it's London; a flat in Leeds is just crap).

It strikes me as being another one of these 'let's make the life of the poor better' type situations, where you assume the continuation of strong class boundaries.

A person should be able to modify their living environment as they choose within reason. Plugging in a car or plumbing in a washing machine is such a basic adjustment that really should never be an issue.

It becomes such because we have this whole class-based nonsense of tons of people being serfs to a hamster wheel of landlords or whatever.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#347

Post by aaomidi »

umeshunni wrote: post #335
thehappypm wrote: post #220

This stopped me from buying a Tesla with my most recent car purchase. I live in a 100 year old apartment in Boston that has 0 parking spots for over 100 units. My wife and I share a car, mostly for weekend adventuring, so we rent a spot in a dude's backyard down the block from us. It works well for us, much more convenient than the rat race of street parking. But it was hard to imagine that life with a Tesla. I could…

I've been trickle charging for the last 3+ years I've owned a Tesla. I live in a condo and the HOA was ok with me pulling an extension from an existing 110V line and charging from it for a nominal fee (we agreed to $50/mo). I got an electrician to pull an extension (cost ~$200). I have a non-driving commute and use the car mostly on the weekends, so it's worked out great vs the cost of installing a level-2 charger ($…

Meanwhile my apartment charges me $15 more per month in parking to charge an EV with 40 Amps. No fee for the electricity.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#348

Post by aaomidi »

jedberg wrote: post #121
oh_hello wrote: post #114

I always thought this was a big problem for EVs, but recently came to think nightly charging might not matter so much for these drivers. If an urban apartment dweller has an EV with 200+ miles of range, can't a public fast charger be used once or twice a week instead? I lived in an apartment with a ~200 mile range ICE car and filled it less than once a week.

Filling your car at the gas station is a five minute stop on the way home. Filing your electric car is at least an hour if you have a DC fast charger and that gets you only 80% full. To get totally full, it would take a multi-hour stop.

> Filing your electric car is at least an hour if you have a DC fast charger and that gets you only 80% full.

..What? Where are you getting your numbers from.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#349

Post by 693471 »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #273

Sadly, if you started putting outlets on the side of street poles in the Bay Area you would attract camper vans rather than EVs. (cue the story of the guy who drove to LA using RV parks to recharge) Its an interesting question though, EV parking lots would seem to make a lot of sense. And certainly it would seem that HOAs for apartments and condos could benefit from them if they charged a bit for the power.

My friend toured the USA in his 2012 Model S before the SuperCharger network existed by only charging at RV parks. The truth is that gas is harder to find in some places than electricity. You just have to take a few minutes to think about the grid and where power is at and the entire debate about feasibility of EVs is flipped on its head.
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