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GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

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Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#171

Post by madengr »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #40
madengr wrote: post #7

I read recently that Honda has stopped all Clarity sales except for CA, especially since the Volt is no longer available. That is a shame because it is a really nice car and fills in the gap between pure EV and a hybrid. 40 miles on full electric, but a gas engine run at peak efficiency for long trips.

but it's a ridiculously constrained trunk rather than hatchback form factor...which removes Honda from consideration for many, i imagine. Tesla and Chevy (and BMW and Mercedes) get the hatchback audience rather than Honda, in this case.

We can fit a hard-cased cello in it, with one seat folded down, but that reduced rear seat to one person. But yeah, hatchback would have been better.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#172

Post by degenerate »

nradov wrote: post #59
jseliger wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Volt was also conceived in the late 2000s when gas prices were high. It was partially a hedge against skyrocketing gas prices. Between the first major oil price crisis in the '70s and today, people reliably buy bigger, more polluting cars when oil is cheap and smaller, less polluting cars when oil is expensive. Fracking may have semi-permanently put a cap on the cost of oil, which is horrific from a global warmin…

The Volt also had the wrong body style based on changing consumer preferences. If GM had put the Voltec drive train in a compact SUV it probably would have sold better.

I firmly believe this was done on purpose. They knew what they were doing by making it look like a tonka toy. EVs were just a write-off attempt by GM that didn't get the gov backing they wanted, so they made sure production remained low by making the cars hideous.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#173

Post by freehunter »

dsr_ wrote: post #165

It's always struck me as weird that they aren't producing hybrids in the vehicles that can most benefit from them: vans, pickups, trucks and tractors. All of these are vehicles with a focus on power and range that would benefit from the torque and simplicity of electric motors, and could easily absorb the weight penalty of a motor-generator and fuel versus more batteries. The people who buy these for functional reaso…

I have a friend who is a diesel mechanic for fleet operations. We've talked about his customers and their views on electric or hybrid vehicles. Obviously this is an anecdote, but he says many of the customers he has are planning to stick to diesel for quite a while because they don't have a team of mechanics who are qualified to work on electric drivetrains. The ones who exist are expensive, and it's expensive to train new ones.

Sure they don't need spark plugs and oil changes and they don't break down often, but when they do apparently it's hard to find non-dealership technicians who can repair/replace parts.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#174

Post by kube-system »

dsr_ wrote: post #165

It's always struck me as weird that they aren't producing hybrids in the vehicles that can most benefit from them: vans, pickups, trucks and tractors. All of these are vehicles with a focus on power and range that would benefit from the torque and simplicity of electric motors, and could easily absorb the weight penalty of a motor-generator and fuel versus more batteries. The people who buy these for functional reaso…

GM used to make a Tahoe Hybrid. It was okay, but I think the price premium was a bit much for the economy gain.

It also doesn’t help that the units of “miles per gallon” are not linear with consumption. A improvement from 10 to 15 mpg doesn’t sound nearly as impressive as an improvement from 20 to 60 mpg... but unintuitively, over 20,000 miles, it’s the same amount of fuel savings.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#175

Post by lukifer »

lann wrote: post #136
lukifer wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the reasons I love the Volt so much is that it still drops much of the complexity of ICE cars, since the drivetrain is fully electric. It's basically just a low-range EV with a backup gas generator bolted on.

Uhh...no: http://gmauthority.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Volte... Source: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/02/secrets-of-the-2016-chev...

Is that the same for 2011-2014 series? I have a Gen 1, I believe they changed things for Gen 2 (2015+).

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#176

Post by UncleChis »

yardie wrote: post #12
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

> both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. At one point I was completely fascinated with the Fiat 500e. Here was an electric car that was stylish, quirky, and could be had on the used market at a great price. But as I got further into it I realized that FCA hated producing this car. Its only reason to exist is to allow them to produce more pollutant vehicles as a regulatory balance. And if it…

The 500e I had, I think 2014 version, had a serious reliability issue. Its electric system failed me multiple times. One time the car just suddenly stalled in the middle of the San Mateo bridge. I love the look of the car, but maybe the fact that they don't want to make it (but have to) leads to them putting less resource on QA?

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#177

Post by benmorris »

We had a Gen 1 Volt for nearly two years. A greatly underrated car in my opinion. No maintenance issues at all, it just worked like it was supposed to. Frankly people are scared of them, we sold ours locally and everyone that looked at it was obsessed with the battery and everything to do with the hybrid features. Our car had a few years left on the GM hybrid component warranty even! It was difficult for people to understand even though the car had 45k miles on it the engine did not (it ran probably 20% of our use). Over the 2 years we owned it we averaged about 75mpg.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#178

Post by flurdy »

tzs wrote: post #120
rootusrootus wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a supercharger/equivalent. We're getting to the point where EVs have enough range that they can be charged on nearly the same schedule as a gas car is refueled.

Longer range might let you get the frequency of charging stops down to a similar schedule as a gas car, but it doesn't do anything about the length of those stops. In terms of time at the pump for a gas vehicle that gets 25 miles per gallon, and time on the charger at the newest Supercharger that Tesla announced a few months ago for an EV, to add enough gas or add enough charge, respectively, for a given number of mi…

Evolution and time will keep making the EV charge time shorter and shorter until it literally takes longer to park & plugin.

With the 150kW spreading all over, and already some 350kw [1] superchargers you are already just 10ish minutes to fully charge from empty. The 1.2mW [2] chargers seem insane, but over time they will get more and more capacity. As long as the cars keep up / catches up!

I agree though that gas/petrol stations will be a thing of the past. As you say charge in normal parking lots, or at home.

I expect restaurants, especially fast-food joints will be the charging places of the future.

[1] https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/first-350kw-chargi...

[2] https://insideevs.com/news/347476/350-kw-12-mw-fast-charging...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#179

Post by nradov »

degenerate wrote: post #172
nradov wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Volt also had the wrong body style based on changing consumer preferences. If GM had put the Voltec drive train in a compact SUV it probably would have sold better.

I firmly believe this was done on purpose. They knew what they were doing by making it look like a tonka toy. EVs were just a write-off attempt by GM that didn't get the gov backing they wanted, so they made sure production remained low by making the cars hideous.

That seems unlikely considering how much engineering effort GM put into the Volt. It wasn't just a compliance car, at least not at first. If they expected it to fail they would have minimized that investment and half-assed it.

When GM started Volt development in about 2006, sedans were still popular and the Toyota Prius was selling relatively well. So I think GM just failed to anticipate the market shift.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#180

Post by steelframe »

throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

Do they have a front yard? I'd price out the cost to trench to a NEMA 6-15 (240v/15a) socket on a pole near the curb where they park. This will get you 3.6kW using the ubiquitous gauge (read: cheap) electrical wiring, which will give a Hyundai Kona about 12 miles per hour of charging. More than adequate as a daily driver, and they can always hit a rapid charge station on the rare event that they drive more than 120 or so miles back-to-back over two consecutive days.

Amortize the cost of installation against the savings they'll have by spending 1/3 of the amount that they currently spend for gasoline.

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