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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#231

Post by ed312 »

throw0101a wrote: post #152
jasoncartwright wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lampposts is exactly how I charge whilst not having off-street parking, in central London. The council converted all the street lights to LEDs, meaning there is excess electricity delivered. So they put plugs on the posts. Works brilliantly. https://imgur.com/a/I5AtwJk https://www.ubitricity.com/

Fully Charged did an episode on this: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaEhBjt1ls However, in many cities the posts are not in the sidewalk, but on people's properties, so as to allow clearer pedestrian paths. This is generally true in Toronto (where the story is written), especially on residential side-streets.

"clearer pedestrian paths" seems like a really bad trade-off for putting public infrastructure on private property (and all the right of way / access issues involved). I wonder if, since the wiring is clearly there, something on-sidewalk could be added (something parking meter-ish).

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#232

Post by neogodless »

stetrain wrote: post #106
dmitrygr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little longer? What am I going to do at a gas station for an hour? I am already bored when I am there for 3 minutes with an ICE car...

Both of my local Tesla chargers are in the same parking lots as grocery stores. One is also near a movie theater and several restaurants. EV charging (except specifically for long distance travel) is less about "Let's sit here while the car charges" and more "Let's plan a thing we were probably going to do anyway at a place that also has EV chargers". Obviously that gets a lot easier as more chargers get installed. E…

I don't want to sound like a broken record but... how many times do you go to fill up your car with gasoline, and you think "Where can I go/what activity can I fill my time with so I can get gas?" (At worst, you think, what gas station is on the way?)

It makes perfect sense that in this less than ideal scenario where chargers are sparse and inconvenient that you change up what you do for entertainment to center it around car chargers. But it has to stop being a requirement for it to make sense for "everyone" to switch from gas to EV.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#233

Post by opportune »

colechristensen wrote: post #205
trilila wrote: post #139

I think this points out the elephant in the room: why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? This is an issue that needs to be solved hand in hand with pollution: less travel, less need for a car, and more living outside overcrowded cities means more living space. So how can we move more jobs to suburbs, where people can work at nearby or home locations and can afford more liv…

>why are so many people in supposedly high income cities not able to buy properties? Housing costs seem to scale to the maximum that the population can pay, and people are willing to accept housing which is a little less than they think they need for a little more than they think they can afford. Generations of this have people growing up wanting what is "normal" and accepting a little less, each generation's normal…

Actually, houses are getting larger by square footage over time, although not sure about lot size.

And peak population won't necessarily create a housing crash everywhere. As long as urbanization continues, it could just slow the growth of cities.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#234

Post by secabeen »

thehappypm wrote: post #220

This stopped me from buying a Tesla with my most recent car purchase. I live in a 100 year old apartment in Boston that has 0 parking spots for over 100 units. My wife and I share a car, mostly for weekend adventuring, so we rent a spot in a dude's backyard down the block from us. It works well for us, much more convenient than the rat race of street parking. But it was hard to imagine that life with a Tesla. I could…

The slow trickle charge is indeed slow, but it's not truly a trickle. It runs about 4-5 Miles/Hr. If you largely drove on the weekend, you could fully recharge the car in a 4-day session. (24 * 5 * 4=400 miles). Additionally, most weekend trips are not 300+ miles, so you would often return with 20-30% battery, which would reduce your charging time to just 3 days. That sounds doable to me.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#235

Post by JeffL »

thehappypm wrote: post #220

This stopped me from buying a Tesla with my most recent car purchase. I live in a 100 year old apartment in Boston that has 0 parking spots for over 100 units. My wife and I share a car, mostly for weekend adventuring, so we rent a spot in a dude's backyard down the block from us. It works well for us, much more convenient than the rat race of street parking. But it was hard to imagine that life with a Tesla. I could…

If you don't have a huge commute every day, a 110v "trickle charge" is actually quite adequate. A Model 3 gets about 5 mph charge on a 110 outlet. That's at least 60 miles over night and 120 miles in 24 hours. You can always supercharge if you need it.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#236

Post by jperras »

koolba wrote: post #230
mast wrote: post #200

A few years ago I lived in a fairly northern Canadian city. Most people had block heaters installed in their cars and plugged them in when the car would be sitting in the cold for more than a few hours. Otherwise, the car would be too cold to start. Most companies and apartment buildings had outlets installed in their parking lots, and at home people just ran extension cords.

You don’t even have to go particularly north to see plug in block heaters. Pretty sure I’ve seen them as far “south” as Toronto. Guess they’re all ready for the EV generation.

Block heaters in grocery stoer parking lots/apartment buildings in Toronto? Where?

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#237

Post by frankus »

cr0sh wrote: post #80

My question would be - does frequent short charging sessions cause issues for the battery packs? Versus longer full charging sessions? I know that lithium cells with their different chemistry are more forgiving of charging and discharging (vs NiMH, NiCd, or Lead Acid). I wonder though if that doesn't cause other effects, such as perhaps longevity issues that might cause overheating or something?

Deep discharges and sitting at low state of charge for a long time are the main things that shorten battery life.

Also harmful is charging to the absolute maximum state of charge. I believe most vehicles have a setting to terminate the charge at a level that maximizes battery life and another setting that maximizes range.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#238

Post by zip1234 »

kelnos wrote: post #185
neogodless wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any solution that requires a certain behavior is unnecessarily coupling that behavior to transferring energy into transportation. In a world where a couple owns two EVs, and only one does the weekly grocery shopping, do they have to swap cars to get them both charged? Do they have to start eating out to charge their car? What if you use Amazon Fresh for food deliveries? Give that up; you need to charge your car. In o…

I think your point hits to the heart of it for many people's situations. You can fit car-charging into your routine if you make some very specific changes to your routine to accommodate it, and you must make possibly several hours of time for those changes every X days, or else you'll have a car with a flat battery and no quick fix that will let you complete your regular car-requiring errands. If that errand is "go g…

What if workplaces add chargers as a benefit? I've seen several do it near me. People then just plug their car in at work.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#240

Post by gsk22 »

mattlutze wrote: post #119
goldcd wrote: post #101

I'd seen the idea of using street-furniture, such as lamp-posts - but can't help seeing visions of coils of cable looping all over the pavement/sidewalk (in the UK at least, lamp posts tend not to be on the road side of the pavement). Plus, if this isn't new-build, whatever's powering those lamps isn't going to charge your car. Well.. it might charge one or two, but once you've got 20 cars, all wanting to be charged…

In Stuttgart, Germany, Daimler piloted a rent-by-the-minute electric car program (which is proliferating with normal petrol cars elsewhere, called Car2Go). The Smart ForTwos that they use are all electric, and the cable is bolted into the trunk of the car, so it takes its cable with it. The charging unit and car's "fuel port" are both receptive sides of the connection, and both the car and the charging station (the c…

Car2Go used to operate in my US city, but they pulled out a couple years ago under the guise of "an onerous new tax burden" (despite no new taxes being passed). I think the real issue was they were just plain expensive -- barely cheaper than an Uber, and way less comfortable.

Other rent-by-time companies like ZipCar are similarly expensive. I'm not convinced that business model works, at least the ways I've seen it implemented.

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