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GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

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Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#81

Post by altano »

dawnerd wrote: post #69
j2bax wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your mileage needs are, but I recently picked up an off lease 2016 eGolf with 33k miles for $12,500 from the VW dealer as my commuter. Gets about 80 miles to a charge in town/city driving, more than enough for my daily commute. Wife drives the long range ICE family vehicle. Some day I hope to be able to affordably replace that as well!

You can get a 2019 eGolf for about the same price. Dealers are willing to negotiate big time. I got mine almost two months ago for 10k off msrp + state and federal.

Where at?

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#83

Post by jedberg »

throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

Sadly I think the answer to this is "more consumerism". As you get more all electrics, you'll see more chargers showing up at restaurants and shopping centers, encouraging you to "charge while you spend".

Either that or cities are going to have to deal with a bunch of really long extension cords all over the street!

I suppose another option is that you'll see an AirBnB type thing for garages with chargers, or small "charge garages" opening near places with only street parking.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#84

Post by flavoie »

freehunter wrote: post #51
Someone1234 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It starts at $36,620 and has up to $3,750[0] in federal tax credits. Making it a $30K+ Subcompact non-luxury vehicle. It doesn't make sense. [0] https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

For comparison, you can get a Certified Pre-Owned BMW 3-series for similar money. At that price point you need to be buying the car specifically because it's electric, not because it's a good value.

If you add up yearly fuel cost (with real number you make, not the official one), maintenance cost ($ and time wasted). Not sure it hold true.

With my commute, suburban+urban with high traffic. Definitely not true. The bolt will be way cheaper.

It will be also quicker, even if it was not meant to be.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#85

Post by erik_seaberg »

llampx wrote: post #29
throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

Do they have an oil well and refinery in their backyard?

It takes about three minutes to buy a week's worth of fuel in any settled area. It would be a challenge to plan a route anywhere that doesn't pass a gas station. How does public charging compare, half an hour per day if you can find one?

People are buying pure electrics betting on charging at home, but some of them are going to be screwed when they move.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#86

Post by NikkiA »

tlb wrote: post #77
rconti wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter to you, as the consumer, that FCA hated producing the car? It's still cheap to buy and operate.

Things made as a result of cynical box-ticking are never good. It's better to fill your life with things designed by people trying to make something great. Even if they didn't fully succeed, you can appreciate the effort. Whereas something made grudgingly will depress you with every detail. > What counts as a trick? Roughly, it's something done with contempt for the audience. For example, the guys designing Ferraris…

> Things made as a result of cynical box-ticking are never good.

The original versions of the Fiat 500 itself, the Morris Mini, the Beetle, and the 2CV would disagree. Ok, you might have a point on the 2CV, but it's owners loved it.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#87

Post by lukifer »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #72

50 years from now we'll look back on hybrids as a brief transition phase in the history of automobiles. They're much more complicated than ICE cars and vastly more complicated than electric cars. Once good enough, cheap enough batteries happen (i.e. now) there's no reason for hybrids to exist.

One of the reasons I love the Volt so much is that it still drops much of the complexity of ICE cars, since the drivetrain is fully electric. It's basically just a low-range EV with a backup gas generator bolted on.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#88

Post by pkulak »

Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

If you lease, you can get the full $7500 as a cap reduction, then just buy at the end if that's what you really wanted to do.

Or look for a dealer demo car. They tend to list them for exactly $7500 under MSRP.

But yeah, never buy new if you can't claim the full amount, since the value of your car has gone down by that amount when it leaves the lot.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#89

Post by gambiting »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #72

50 years from now we'll look back on hybrids as a brief transition phase in the history of automobiles. They're much more complicated than ICE cars and vastly more complicated than electric cars. Once good enough, cheap enough batteries happen (i.e. now) there's no reason for hybrids to exist.

It's as if everyone if forgetting that tonnes of people live in houses without designated parking. I have friends who'd love a fully electric vehicle but they live in a terraced house without a driveway so there is just no way to charge it. But a hybrid that achieves good fuel economy without needing to be plugged in makes a lot of sense instead.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#90

Post by NickM »

gdickie wrote: post #73
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

The federal tax incentive is a refundable tax credit. So it doesn't interact with deductions. It's regressive in the sense that you need to be buying a new car to get it. But it passes to used car owners in the form of a lower residual value for the car. A one year old plug-in hybrid lease-return can be a great deal.

It is a credit, but it is not refundable and cannot be carried over into future years. However, it has led to some pretty good lease deals for people that can’t get the full credit themselves, since for leases the credit goes to the company providing the lease. Also good points about the value of the credit being effectively passed on for used car sales.
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