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Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

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Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#71

Post by chc »

spenrose wrote: post #33

The chargers are cheap and getting much faster and will be deployed everywhere you can run an electric line: https://twitter.com/sampenrose/status/1152625267589840896

This is kind of the "Year of Linux on the Desktop" of EVs. I'll believe it when I see it. I live in a community with an incredibly high number of EVs, but I can't get one because I am not a homeowner and there's no charging anywhere besides people's garages.

The above thread suggests there's going to be free, ubiquitous inductive charging in a few years. Just look how far we are from that. Even in putatively EV-friendly areas, it's still really hard for someone without a garage to consider an EV today. California can't even find the political will to fund its EV rebate for the whole year. How likely is it that there will just be magic free electricity everywhere in 10 years?

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#72

Post by slg »

llamataboot wrote: post #62
Whatarethese wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teshole? You sound reasonable

To be fair, blocking the sidewalk with your car is pretty much the definition of a jerk move.

Why not just call that individual a jerk then? Names like "Teshole" are an attempt to create stereotypes of a broad swath of people. It is no different than using something like "libtard" and is only a step or two away from stereotyping people based on something like gender or race.

If you encounter a jerk, you are fine labeling that person a jerk, but that doesn't mean that everyone who shares a random trait with that person is also a jerk.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#73

Post by duskwuff »

Finnucane wrote: post #19
stcredzero wrote: post #4

I used to run an extension cord out of my 2nd floor window, but I wasn't parking on the street. My space was off the driveway, behind a fence and a gate, but only about 12 feet from the curb. More recently, I had been parking an electric car in my apartment's lot, and running an extension cord from the exercise room, out to the car. Then the apartment decided to close off those outlets. In both cases, the car's batte…

There's a guy with a Tesla around the corner from me, who does this (cable out the 2nd floor window), and he does park on the street. Not sure what he does if he can't get a space close enough. (A neighborhood of row houses with little off-street parking) I think the car makers have to accelerate integrating solar charging into their cars. You probably wouldn't get 100% of your charge that way, but you could get enou…

> I think the car makers have to accelerate integrating solar charging into their cars.

Nah. Solar on cars is a dead-end -- even with perfectly efficient solar panels, a clear sky, and the sun at the zenith, the most power you can possibly get is 1.3 kW/m² (cf. [1]). I don't know exactly how large of a solar panel you could put on a car, but even with a huge 5 m² panel, you'd still be looking at over 12 hours (i.e, multiple days of charging) to charge a Tesla's 85 kWh battery. With realistic panel efficiency and sun conditions, it'd take even longer.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_constant

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#74

Post by [deleted] »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #69
AshleyGrant wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put the fast chargers at shopping centers.. Unless the car is run down to nearly a dead battery, it won't need but about 20 minutes on the charger. That's about how long a short trip to the grocery store takes.

Is it feasible to put in hundreds of high voltage chargers?

[deleted]

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#75

Post by vanilla_nut »

dmitrygr wrote: post #52
rootusrootus wrote: post #6

Why does everyone need a place to charge at home? Sure, it is one of the big advantages of an EV, but not everyone can take advantage of it. If the car has a 300-400 mile range, then charge it like you fuel up a gas-powered car. Takes a little bit longer, but that will improve over time.

A little longer? What am I going to do at a gas station for an hour? I am already bored when I am there for 3 minutes with an ICE car...

I'm surprised that coffee shops/bookstores haven't started to target this demographic yet. Buy a coffee, an hour or two of quick charging, and read a book for a couple of hours in a comfy seat while your car charges. Considering how many people will go to those establishments already, it seems like a pretty easy hook (and probably has a lot of demographic overlap).

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#76

Post by benj111 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #61
Reason077 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging an EV is not really like filling up with gas. You need a slightly different mindset. You're not going to be waiting around constantly for your car to finish charging. In reality, you're charging at night while you're sleeping. Or charging at work while you're working. Or charging at the supermarket while you buy your groceries.

The article is about how people can't charge while they are at sleep. There's going to be a huge portion of people who can't charge at work. I guess you have to charge at groceries, which you'll need to go to every day. Though the grocery store will need to be dramatically refitted to support that, and will need to justify having a power grid the size of their parking lot increasing their power bill just because it's…

Why would you need to do it every day? EV ranges are rising above 200 miles, that's an order of magnitude higher than most peoples commutes, so for most people once a week would be enough.

Shops would do it because money and footfall.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#77

Post by dmitrygr »

AshleyGrant wrote: post #64
dmitrygr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little longer? What am I going to do at a gas station for an hour? I am already bored when I am there for 3 minutes with an ICE car...

A) It doesn't take an hour to charge an EV unless you're charging past 90%, which isn't typically done as it hurts the battery. B) You're bored b/c you have to stand next to the pump waiting for it to finish. This isn't a problem with EV charging. Go get a coffee or read a book.

Not everyone has time to "get a coffee or read a book" when the car runs empty. Some people live years without a free hour to "just go read a book", for example: anyone with young kids.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#78

Post by chc »

Pfhreak wrote: post #57
chc wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really comparable. Garage charging makes EVs more convenient than ICE cars, but they're much less convenient if you can't charge at home. ICE cars can stop at a gas station on empty and be back on the road completely full in two minutes. Even with a fast charger, it takes upwards of half an hour to charge an EV. Level 2 charging takes hours.

Maybe the PNW is different, but there are chargers everywhere here. Charge during work, while you shop, etc. Charging will be an incentive or even an expectation. Imagine if your employer said, "We'll fill your tank with gas while you work", people would love that perk. Having free or subsidized charging at work seems like an inevitability to me.

The year of Linux on the desktop seemed like an inevitability for a lot of people. It never happened. I'd love for the future you envision to come true, but I don't see any reason to think it will, given how little movement there is in that direction even in a super EV-friendly region like Southern California.

To be clear, there are chargers at my work...but only two, and they're for-profit, so the converted cost per mile of range is more than it costs to put gas in my Prius. It was the same at my last workplace.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#79

Post by Reason077 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #61
Reason077 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging an EV is not really like filling up with gas. You need a slightly different mindset. You're not going to be waiting around constantly for your car to finish charging. In reality, you're charging at night while you're sleeping. Or charging at work while you're working. Or charging at the supermarket while you buy your groceries.

The article is about how people can't charge while they are at sleep. There's going to be a huge portion of people who can't charge at work. I guess you have to charge at groceries, which you'll need to go to every day. Though the grocery store will need to be dramatically refitted to support that, and will need to justify having a power grid the size of their parking lot increasing their power bill just because it's…

The grocery store won't be giving away the electricity for free. Maybe they'll subsidise it a bit if they realise that offering charging brings more traffic to their store. But it won't be free any more than gas stations give away free gas!

The electricity grid already extends to most workplaces, most urban streets, most parking lots. Destination charging, where you're plugging in for hours rather than minutes, doesn't need a huge industrial grid connection like super-fast charging hubs do. Sure, infrastructure needs to be developed, but it's manageable and it will happen easily enough once the demand is there.

Re: Where will ‘garage orphans’ charge electric cars?

#80

Post by cr0sh »

My question would be - does frequent short charging sessions cause issues for the battery packs? Versus longer full charging sessions?

I know that lithium cells with their different chemistry are more forgiving of charging and discharging (vs NiMH, NiCd, or Lead Acid). I wonder though if that doesn't cause other effects, such as perhaps longevity issues that might cause overheating or something?

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