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The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

palladiummag.com

171–180 of 182 posts

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#171

I went to an English boarding school long enough ago for the intent of that system to still be to train the officer class of the British Empire. But not so long ago that it was actually practical for any of us to realistically be colonial administrators. This piece reminds me of that education. We were in the middle of the feminist and multi-cultural ideological revolutions. Being culturally aware; not insisting that…

> unshakably confident that its values, its culture, are superior to the everyone else's. Now... not so much? I feel the same way about American values that Churchill felt about democracy.

I would agree with you. Well, except for the guns and religion bits of it.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#172
post #19
post #11

The articles contends the rich kids at Yale pretend to be poor to shirk the elite responsibilities, which then leads to deterioration of the elites. I find it doubtful that the kids have thought it through that far. A couple of more likely explanations come to mind: - Rebellious teenagers always want to establish independence from their parents. Giving up part of the money takes you part of the way there. - It's hard…

The author seems pretty confused about rich kids. Having rich parents doesn't necessarily mean that you have a lot of cash in college. (Sensible parents are going to give their college kids enough money to get by, not enough to go on a spending spree.) Thus, it's totally reasonable that college kids are commonly broke. It's not some role-playing to escape their responsibilities as members of the elite. In other words…

This exact thing happened to me in college. I had a few fraternity brothers who were always broke and scrounging around, while simultaneously desperately afraid to let on anything about their family background.

It's always a combination of wanting their kids to go through a phase of knowing what it's like to have nothing (teach the lesson of frugality), and making them spend their early 20's living hand-to-mouth as a way to maintain the illusion of control.

But that's not an indictment of modern culture. You see that pattern occur across generations.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rebellious teenagers always want to establish independence from their parents" The rebelliousness of college students seems so obvious to me. Everyone here using youthful behavior (almost all in their teens and early twenties) to bash their favorite bogeyman group (usually composed of much older people) is missing the completely obvious.

>The rebelliousness of college students seems so obvious to me. Everyone here using youthful behavior (almost all in their teens and early twenties) to bash their favorite bogeyman group (usually composed of much older people) is missing the completely obvious. What do you mean?

I mean that 18 year olds at Yale are... 18 year olds.

Protests have been a regular fixture on college campuses (including non-elite campuses) for at least 50 years. Including times when the elite/the country had "purpose". Kent, Ohio isn't exactly New Haven or Cambridge...

Youthful rebellion is as old as time, and arguably isn't even unique to humans. Therefore, grounding a sweeping societal critique in any particular mode of youthful rebellion (be it political protest or inane partying) seems a bit... silly.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic... " Noblesse oblige "? " With great power comes great responsibility "†? " To whom much has been given, much is expected "? The belief that the wealthy and powerful have a duty to use that power to improve the welfare of the society in which they live has been around for a long…

The point that struck me was the assertion that American elites have become dysfunctional. And, that wokeness is more of a symptom rather than cause of that dysfunction. That is a very interesting idea and worthy of consideration. Historically, crises among elites are dangerous. Elites losing the confidence of the people, for example, is destabilizing. Severe conflict among elite factions (sometimes during a loss of…

Perhaps you'd be interested in Peter Turchin's theory of "overpopulation of elites" being a root cause of societal dysfunction.

http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/intra-elite-competition...

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they should act rich instead to become more worthy of respect No, the point is that "if you put on a façade for long enough, you end up forgetting that it is a façade"

No, the point is an anti-race equality rant which is intentionally blurring a few anti-elite and anti-dysfunction sounds so it would get published. If it were genuinely anti-dysfunction, it would include much lower hanging fruit like admittance practices focusing on wealth and wrongful terminations. If it were anti-privilege it would focus on that privilege and not on race protest or fads. So yes, in abstraction, if…

My reading of the essay is the elite are now completely out of touch with reality, and a complete abdication of their responsibilities. Also, the piece ties this prevailing ideological virtue signaling as a class indicator. It's been interesting to read the comments, as there are some serious knee jerk reactions to anything which questions the orthodoxy of prevailing thought in our universities or come to the conclusions I have. Ad reducto Trump, you see this on the other side as well; that's a whole other bag of worms though. We having something incredibly toxic in the air and the zeitgeist's humors are wildly out of balance. I'm going to address this thought below to inform you on why I have a different conclusion and the lens I see things through.

> The one and only theme is that racial equality activism should stop on the grounds that it is being done by rich kids

For right now let's get over the fact there is an elite. We are going to look at how this is playing out. Social hierarchies are pretty much built into all social creatures, and plain as day in human civilizations regardless of political, economic structures or point in history. The powerful have always ensured their progeny have a slot at their standing; it's what people of all societies do. From this axiom we can arrive at this conclusion, there will be a small group with more capital (social, political and economic) which have a heavy hand on the scale of power and structure of society and set the direction it takes. In the future we might figure out a system which mitigates this while preserving individual freedoms, who knows. Right now in 2019, this is the behavior we are seeing from the top echelons, the old guard have been rent seeking, while the new are hung up on de-gendering pronouns and outraged at tactless yelp reviews. We now have those people filling in slots at the top of the food chain now pushing their ideology, while maintaining the status quo.

One narrow anecdotal example (I know, I know, this is to illustrate how this behavior manifests itself) is the Advertising Club of New York. They give presentations on promoting women in advertising, it used to be a mens only club and how they are fundamentally changing the nature of the industry. Though, advertising still works as it ever did and showing no signs of stopping, but now women make up all executive positions of this group. Ambitious women should be allowed to succeed in their pursuits, there is no argument there, and I'm not saying it's an even playing field. The issue is we have this elite pat themselves on the back for promoting diversity, but none of the fundamental issues are addressed. The moral hazard of the pharmaceutical industry, payday loans, junk food, liquor or whatever social ill which gets your goat are still kicking hard and our 24/7 media outrage cycle are completely dependent on revenue from advertising. Basically, the money is too damn good, but our navel gazing makes this ok.

It's easier to create empty symbolic gestures, rather than actually address the issues. For the majority of Americans these are the real issues which impact millions on a daily basis: lack of economic opportunities, lack of social cohesion, decay of infrastructure, by age 23 49% of black males, 44% of Hispanic males, and 38% of white males have been arrested, living in a dangerous environment and the few options out there force crap decisions which nearly guarantee no social mobility. Just because we now have a few more rich (insert minority group) women at the top of the heap doesn't change the fact childhood diabetes is alarming high. The elite feign moral outrage on the inconsequential, while people are literally dying from their inaction. It's tone deaf, and comes across like a slide show of Christian missionaries in Africa painting a chapel.

Yale produces, whether you agree with it or not, the future elite of this country. They are not proposing real solutions to the problems above. Instead it's witch hunts, getting caught up in language we use, and the highest stakes seems to be throwing bike locks at each other. Do you think poor black single moms working working two jobs to support her kids are out there risking arrest to protest the proud boys? No, it's wealthy kids on both sides playing a really stupid game. What we want and desperately need is for our leaders to look at what's going on, stick their necks out there and take some real risks with the power they wield. 2 cent idea, setting up business centers with ability to loan money in impoverished neighborhoods with the goal of setting up local small businesses with tools to give them a solid shot. Here's another, ease the crazy zoning and approval laws in place to develop housing for working people in urban areas. How about this, implement the German system of unions on corporate boards. How about creating a new dealesque army corp of engineers? The fact there is no real risk taken on unsexy problems shows a lack of responsibility.

So yeah, I don't really have an issue with protesting anything. It's your right, and I firmly believe in the 1st amendment. The issue is these elite are squandering the opportunities they have, and lost the plot. Out of many countless people who don't have the opportunity, countless others which tried their hardest at the mere chance and failed, these select few which got in have a very real shot at improving society, and what are we getting? Can't use the word freshman anymore.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the point is an anti-race equality rant which is intentionally blurring a few anti-elite and anti-dysfunction sounds so it would get published. If it were genuinely anti-dysfunction, it would include much lower hanging fruit like admittance practices focusing on wealth and wrongful terminations. If it were anti-privilege it would focus on that privilege and not on race protest or fads. So yes, in abstraction, if…

My reading of the essay is the elite are now completely out of touch with reality, and a complete abdication of their responsibilities. Also, the piece ties this prevailing ideological virtue signaling as a class indicator. It's been interesting to read the comments, as there are some serious knee jerk reactions to anything which questions the orthodoxy of prevailing thought in our universities or come to the conclus…

I agree that a focus on economic opportunity might be more effective. And Universities need to stand behind their staff. But the article is not remotely suggesting that students should focus on economic reform. And if there were any doubt on that issue, it is made clear by the authors other articles. Indeed, the author went to Yale, we know she did not participate in any protests. What exactly did she do as her responsibility?

Those students _are_ focused on wide reform in _every_ field. The article and those like it are cynically composed to describe only racial reform efforts in order to drive a wedge between white and non-white working class voters and to demonize the few wealthy who are actually on the side of reform.

Indeed it is the very group doing the anti-racist protests that are the ones _allied_ with economic reform. That's where the Bernie Sanders supporters are. The problem would be the polar opposite students in Yale solely there to learn how to increase hereditary wealth and power.

These exact same techniques and even words were used in the 60s to demonize economic reforms by railing against the "extreme" behaviors of student then. Portrayal of universities as Communist (still a common theme on Fox), focusing solely on pro-integration and anti-war protests to falsely portray disregard for white poor and national disloyalty. They kept two out of three today.

And they found they same audience to stoke the same unjustified resentment then as now by falsely convincing working class whites that powerful liberal economic reformers are only interested in non-whites. And so drove a wedge between working class whites and non-whites. And so Nixon and Trump.

The catastrophic rent seeking and inequality is certainly _not_ coming from those few privileged students who publicly disapprove of that. The one involved in dramatic reform protests (that includes but are not limited to racial items). There are zero students in those protests who oppose dramatic economic reform. The problem is from the actual people causing it: the Koch brothers, the Waltons, Murdoch, people who don't get remotely as many outraged articles as these students.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. We should ask if they should have this power and the people should seize it back if necessary.

Well that is the thing - it isn't granted by us or even talent but by the connection to the resources of others and the benefits - not all of them material. Many of them even if they suffered full fledged "flee a homicidal government and start with nothing" would have immaterial assets like education and experience running large organizations to gain wealth and rise up again.

You’re right, but all of this flows from perceived status.

Status is not immutable. Stanford was not the elite institution it is today in the 1940s for instance.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point that struck me was the assertion that American elites have become dysfunctional. And, that wokeness is more of a symptom rather than cause of that dysfunction. That is a very interesting idea and worthy of consideration. Historically, crises among elites are dangerous. Elites losing the confidence of the people, for example, is destabilizing. Severe conflict among elite factions (sometimes during a loss of…

Perhaps you'd be interested in Peter Turchin's theory of "overpopulation of elites" being a root cause of societal dysfunction. http://peterturchin.com/cliodynamica/intra-elite-competition...

Thank you for posting the link. I have read this. What do you think about Turchin's theory? I'm unsure whether I agree with it or not.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#179

Interesting piece although I don't think they represent the point of view of the agitators fairly, for example the author writes: " you ask supporters, they will tell you the cost does not matter so much, because this is about creating an ideal world . Of course the professor should be fired—how dare she stand against the minority student organizations? Of course it’s okay that the Yelp reviews were published—she sho…

I thought the exact same thing, the "Calhoun incident" mentioned completely takes away from the rest of the examples showing that Yale is acquiescing to unreasonable demands. Not wanting to live in a building celebrating a violently pro-slavery historical figure is not at all unreasonable, and is not erasing history. Being anti-slavery and anti-racism isn't some "politically correct fad of the day" that nobody can keep up with.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they should act rich instead to become more worthy of respect No, the point is that "if you put on a façade for long enough, you end up forgetting that it is a façade"

No, the point is an anti-race equality rant which is intentionally blurring a few anti-elite and anti-dysfunction sounds so it would get published. If it were genuinely anti-dysfunction, it would include much lower hanging fruit like admittance practices focusing on wealth and wrongful terminations. If it were anti-privilege it would focus on that privilege and not on race protest or fads. So yes, in abstraction, if…

I agree, I got the impression the author was desperate to find explanations that would distract from the issues of race and gender. Despite its length, there is no sincere consideration of the perspectives of others or attempt to understand them. In fact it's outright dismissive, and attempts to reallocate credit for hard won civil rights progress from minority groups to rich white people.

It should be celebrated that the institution finally- after generations, sees having buildings named after slavers as problematic all on its own. It shouldnt take mass student protests to move such things forward, especially when they are symbolic and represent little to no cost to the university to implement. I would like to think that competent people dont need it explained to them why a person of color might be uncomfortable at an institution that celebrates people who raped and murdered their ancestors. This article reeks of willfull ignorance.

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