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Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

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Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#91

Post by mushufasa »

notwumao wrote: post #55

I am a mainland-born Chinese who studied in the US and have been living in HK for over a decade. Just want to share what I saw recently: an overwhelming majority of Chinese people who grew up in mainland, regardless of where they live and work now, disapprove of the HK protesters' activities. Many mainland Chinese living in HK, who were largely not interested in politics in the past, have started donating money to pr…

The Hong Kong protests are about democratic values, which were instilled in Hong Kong by the British for 150 years. Ideas like the Magna Carta (everyone has inherent rights and no one is above the law), freedom of the press, Common Law.

People who grew up in mainland china do not have that cultural context. Opposite values were taught (no 'inherent rights' outside of government policy, censorship of press to maintain harmony, no Common Law).

Unless they have advanced degrees in political theory, I imagine it would be very hard for people who grew up in mainland china to understand why the Hong Kong people are protesting at all, much less sympathize. The values are that far apart.

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#92

Post by factsaresacred »

dustinmoris wrote: post #74

So far China has been extremely calm and restrained itself from doing anything premature and yet they are being portrayed as the absolute worst people. On the other hand there are governments like the US which immediately respond with military action even in countries where people protest which have nothing to do with the US and they are being portrayed as the heroes. It's funny how the HK protests and the immense me…

> So far China has been extremely calm and restrained itself from doing anything premature and yet they are being portrayed as the absolute worst people.

Ah yes, the calm and restrained Chinese Communist Party. A party that:

- gunned down its own citizens, erased the fact, and continues to harasses the grieving mothers

- sends its Muslim population to concentration camps

- decimated Chinese society in the mid 20th century

- disappears people for crimes like demanding democracy

"are being portrayed as the absolute worst people".

Boohoo.

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#93

Post by johnchristopher »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #54
maeln wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will add that there is now suspicion of police infiltrating protest to start violent clash: https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1474213-20190812.h... I wouldn't be very surprise if it was the case as it is often a tactic use, even in our western democracies, to justify stronger and more violent police operation and also tarnish the image of the protest.

Hong Kong is a matter of national security to China. Something countries go to wars till the last man over. So what you mentioned is nothing, China has a lot more goodies in the bag. Here's one: Granting pardons or giving immunity to top criminal gangs as a long as they kill xxx revolt leaders.

Why is this comment downvoted ?

In my country, Belgium, headlines were along the lines of "The real question now is: how patient is Beijing inclined to be ?".

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#94

Post by cltsang »

notwumao wrote: post #89
CogitoCogito wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask you why you are against the protests? Also would you support the CCP making a public statement taking a step back and agreeing to listen to the protesters' concerns?

Regarding the second question, I felt humiliated by the protestors' vandalism on the Chinese flag and emblem, which are symbols of our national identity. If my government ended up making concessions to the protestors' demand, it would be a hard pill for me to swallow.

So what about the problems themselves? The extradition bill? Police brutality? Unjustified arrests? And ultimately, the HK government not answering to the people's demand?

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#95

Post by Arkanosis »

notwumao wrote: post #89
CogitoCogito wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask you why you are against the protests? Also would you support the CCP making a public statement taking a step back and agreeing to listen to the protesters' concerns?

Regarding the second question, I felt humiliated by the protestors' vandalism on the Chinese flag and emblem, which are symbols of our national identity. If my government ended up making concessions to the protestors' demand, it would be a hard pill for me to swallow.

Thank you for sharing your perspective!

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#96

Post by history_push »

hvidgaard wrote: post #53
cdmckay wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has already stated their real intentions. After 50 years of autonomy, there will be no 1 country, 2 systems. They stated this when they took over control of HK and Macau. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_country,_two_systems

From the very first paragraph of your link > Under the principle, each of the two regions could continue to have its own governmental system, legal, economic and financial affairs, including trade relations with foreign countries. Yet they're trying to pass a law that essentially allow China to extradite people in HK to mainland China, for any reason mainland China makes up. That is not 1 country, 2 systems as the le…

There's no evidence that China makes up the law. The HK government draft this law to extradite a criminal who commits murder in Taiwan. The law also excludes a bunch of crimes.

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#97

Post by bitanarch »

notwumao wrote: post #89
CogitoCogito wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask you why you are against the protests? Also would you support the CCP making a public statement taking a step back and agreeing to listen to the protesters' concerns?

Regarding the second question, I felt humiliated by the protestors' vandalism on the Chinese flag and emblem, which are symbols of our national identity. If my government ended up making concessions to the protestors' demand, it would be a hard pill for me to swallow.

The original extradition law weakened the strength of the Common Law system of Hong Kong - which, for many Hong Kongers, had concerns on both their ability to continue to do business with international entities; and the rule of law itself.

The more recent police brutality concerns Hong Kongers because, well, now your home and the subway station you use everyday is gassed. And the government is doing it. It's now beyond just abstract concepts like the rule of law and it's a concern of your personal safety - even if you're not a protestor.

The issue of the Chinese flag / emblem being dirtied / thrown away / etc. during protests may be a concern of many in China... but ignoring the more immediate and practical concerns from everyday HKers is not helpful for anyone. Even from the perspective of the Party, such rhetoric only creates more division and problems down the road.

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#99

Post by jddj »

notwumao wrote: post #89
CogitoCogito wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask you why you are against the protests? Also would you support the CCP making a public statement taking a step back and agreeing to listen to the protesters' concerns?

Regarding the second question, I felt humiliated by the protestors' vandalism on the Chinese flag and emblem, which are symbols of our national identity. If my government ended up making concessions to the protestors' demand, it would be a hard pill for me to swallow.

This got me thinking about my own situation.

I've been living abroad in various places for a few years now, and I feel like if someone were to vandalise the flag of my home country in an act of protest I don't think it would trigger much of an emotional response in me at all. No more, probably, than someone vandalising the flag of my sports team (that's to say, not much).

I wonder where this emotional attachment to tribal symbols starts and ends. I haven't done much at all in my life (voted a few times, otherwise just lived within the system) to create my home nation. It's just the part of the world where I happened to be born.

Even if I had fought hard to change my country and later become proud of what it had become, I would question whether someone defacing a symbol of that country would trigger an emotional response.

Am I alone in this? Is this tribalism something which is usually considered innate or learned / forgotten?

Re: Hong Kong Airport shuts down as protesters take over

#100

Post by CogitoCogito »

tluyben2 wrote: post #87
CogitoCogito wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask you why you are against the protests? Also would you support the CCP making a public statement taking a step back and agreeing to listen to the protesters' concerns?

Cannot speak for OP but my Chinese mainland friends do not condone of the protests because they simply do not want to rock the boat in any way. Just live life, make money (preferably lots of it, so expensive brands can be bought), raise a family, help your neighbor. Let the gov run the country and keep your interests and discussions out of it. They believe HK will be a better, easier, more organized and more peaceful…

But it’s the CCP that’s been pushing changes. If they just stopped pushing for changes between Hong Kong and the mainland, they would largely (if not entirely) placate the protesters. The CCP is the one rocking the boat!
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