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Python Is Eating the World

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Re: Python Is Eating the World

#301

Post by pjmlp »

Daishiman wrote: post #299
pjmlp wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is running on its own computer, for shell scripting. If it is trying to process ML data, or running in some cloud provider, or deployed in some IoT device supposed to run for years without maintenance, then maybe yes.

Right, but when you're at that point in performance considerations you already have a team of specialists working on multiple angles in performance. And precisely, for ML code all python libraries run extremely optimized natively compiled code. The language overhead is a minimal consideration. And for business domain code language performance is rarely the limiting factor.

In some companies that team size is a very tiny number of 1.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#302

Post by mlwhiz »

I have been a Python guy for 10 years now switching from another profession - I was a mechanical engineer. I tried to learn other languages like Java ,C and was partially successful too. But I don't remember creating anything useful in those languages.

Everything was so verbose that I got drowned in the syntax rather than the logic behind the program. For me, Python signifies ease of development and fast iterations and as such is suited for any young developer.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#303

Post by CogitoCogito »

KirinDave wrote: post #186
futureastronaut wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure what your point is in criticizing "farming" to C. > This is that culture thing I'm talking about. You made a false claim. You referred to Python iteration as not generic, when what you really meant is that Python lacks first class monad support. If you want a monadic programming model, you're not going to be a happy camper in the Python world. But I doubt that comes as a surprise.

> I'm not really sure what your point is in criticizing "farming" to C. If Python is so great how come it can't even express a decent data structure that it needs? I'll happily level the same criticism at Ruby if you like. > You made a false claim. Firstly: This is not High School Debate Club. There isn't some kind of point system. Language and expectations like this are not only counterproductive (in that they essen…

> If Python is so great how come it can't even express a decent data structure that it needs?

Why is this a requirement of a "great" language? By not requiring a language to be self-hosting, you are adding more degrees of freedom to your language's design, so I could even see an argument that writing it in C is an improvement. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I don't see why cpython written in C implies it is a bad language. Maybe you could elucidate your thinking?

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#304

Post by DonHopkins »

yawaramin wrote: post #111
KirinDave wrote: post #93

Reading this got me thinking and I wonder if other people feel like me about this, so I'm going to share it. This is not serious, but not entirely unserious... I try to be a good sport about it, but every time I write python I want to quit software engineering. It makes me angry how little it values my time. It does little for my soured disposition that folks then vehemently lecture me about the hours saved by future…

I'm sympathetic that Python is relatively not a great language, but IMHO an 80-character line limit is quite reasonable. It's easier to read on smaller screens, easier to view side-by-side diffs, and tends to force you to break up your code more. That said, this shouldn't be a lint, it should just be enforced by a formatting tool as a format-on-save setting. It just destroys all the wasted arguments about formatting…

I enjoy printing code out, going outside, and reading it.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#305

Post by Daishiman »

trilila wrote: post #282
Daishiman wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? You have Django and DRF and Flask. DRF is, by far, the best designed framework for building APIs in any programming language I have ever seen, and I've at this game for a long time. JavaScript has 10 times more packages than PyPi, and for the most part they are absolute garbage with no intent on being maintained. Python has substantially fewer packages where the community rallies around them and keeps them as bes…

Oh nice, you have two frameworks. Well, whatever suits your fixed mindset.

I'll take a framework that has worked effectively for a decade without significant changes where I can use all my accumulated experience to get things done over the random musings and experimentation of the half-baked JS libraries where you're stuck for hours solving relatively trivial issues that I have never had to think about in DRF because DRF just works and is backed by some of the most experienced people in API architecture in the industry.

When you think about and iterate judiciously in a problem domain over a decade instead of trying something different every day to see what sticks, you'll see you can get remarkably far.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#306

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

willtim wrote: post #235
autokad wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer, I am a data scientist I feel the complete opposite. I really enjoy working with python over any other language. R does linear models and time series better and matlab has its charm, but overall I prefer python. Python is so easy to read and quick to program in. I am so glad I am not in the Java/C++ world anymore, but I know people in different roles have to deal with different issues.

> I really enjoy working with python over any other language. I assume you mean, "over any other language I have tried" ? As someone with a mathematical background myself, I am always surprised at how many data scientists and quants are ignoring more mathematically principled languages like F#, OCaml and Haskell.

I dont know about F# and ocaml, but haskell's numerical libraries really pale compared to numpy.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#307

Post by nahtnam »

mantap wrote: post #67

In general JavaScript is eating the world. Python still dominates in numerical computing and JavaScript hasn't been able to make a single dent. Because nobody wants to write a.mul(k).add(b) rather than k * a + b or a.set([i,j], b) rather than a[i,j] = b JavaScript's lack of operator overloading is keeping Python alive. Python also has integers that feel part of the language, rather than being segregated from normal n…

You’re spot on… As someone who uses Node/JS for most of my projects, I was actually surprised at how easy math is in python. I was given a homework assignment with the ability to use whatever language I wanted, so I picked JS. After hours wasted trying to do math with large numbers, I switched to python because others seemed to have success with it. Needless to say, I finished the assignment an hour or so after that. (Note, I would still use Node over python for an API any day of the week, personal preference)

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#308

Post by zik »

brainless wrote: post #68

Remember NOT to jump into Python for your new product if don't know Python. If you are developing for a young startup, have time crunch, then stick to what you know. IF you do not have a language, or know Python a bit, then pick Python. Here are some of the reasons why I stick to Python (young startup/web APIs): - OOPs is not too strict (might give a headache to some folks) - Mixins, lambda, decorators, comprehension…

I know it's only a one off anecdote but two developers in my team who previously didn't know python used it for a small time-critical project and it was a brilliant success.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#309

Post by mixmastamyk »

KirinDave wrote: post #93

Reading this got me thinking and I wonder if other people feel like me about this, so I'm going to share it. This is not serious, but not entirely unserious... I try to be a good sport about it, but every time I write python I want to quit software engineering. It makes me angry how little it values my time. It does little for my soured disposition that folks then vehemently lecture me about the hours saved by future…

This is the top comment? Not very useful.

Re: Python Is Eating the World

#310

Post by spion »

yongjik wrote: post #108
aaron_m04 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write python professionally and honestly, who cares about the 80 character limit? Just ignore it! :)

I do. This is 2019, and I like being able to see at least three files side-by-side without squinting my eyes, thank you very much. Yes, I know I'm in the minority these days. :/

what if the overly restrictive character limit causes a decrease in naming clarity?
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