Death of the Neighborhood Bar • Hacker News Board

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#111

Post by gambiting » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

robocat wrote: post #109

gambiting wrote: post #87

As a 28-year old, I never understood the appeal of a pub as a meeting place. I think my main issue is that in loud places I just cannot for the life of me understand what is being said. I've had my hearing tested and it's absolutely fine, better than it should be at my age actually, and yet it's as if my ability to decode human speech goes to zero as soon as I'm in a loud environment, especially if there's sport even…

You are most likely unfamiliar with what a "local" bar feels like. A local bar feels like a restaurant, one where you can hear others at the table: you go to it to talk with others not to get boozed or as a venue. When you enter a busy local, the predominant sound is the hubub of voices. If there is music, it's volume should be below that (no amplified speakers throughout). The issue is that many modern sports or nig…

I mean, I live in the UK - there's always a pub round the corner. And yes, there are pubs which are essentially restaurants and everyone is keeping very low volume level - those are fine. But the types of pubs that all my friends/co-workers go to after work(filled to the brim with people, TV on, half of the people there are just there for pre-drinks before going on a night out) - nope, can't do those. And yet my friends can somehow easily sit there for 4 hours and talk about stuff while I'm just dumbfounded how anyone can understand a word unless it's literally shouted into my ear. Like, it's not just the venue choice - I can clearly see that other people are talking with each other.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#112

Post by mwfunk » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

bnjms wrote: post #96

mwfunk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a sad phenomena and it's really accelerated in recent decades. What it means to be an American Evangelical has also radically changed over the years- for example, 100 years ago, the Southern Baptists were very vocal, activists even about preserving the bounds between Church and State. It was the official Southern Baptist position that not intermingling Church and State was critical to a functioning socie…

I was going to disagree because I had misunderstood the GP. But if you’re both considering mega churches to be an example of evangelicals then I while heartedly agree. The mega church is the worst thing to happen to Christianity. While once you could be part of a small community and you’d notice new visitors and introduce yourself that doesn’t seem to be the case at the larger churches. I recall visiting small church…

A pro-church atheist is a great description for me too, it never occurred to me but that's a great phrase.

Yes, I'm definitely including megachurches (esp. nondenominational megachurches) as evangelicals, and I totally agree with the friendly small church vs dystopian megachurch experiences. Just about any TV pastor is an evangelical as well. For someone who's not a believer, I'm surprised at how sad this state of affairs can make me. Joel Osteen/Jim Bakker/Jerry Falwell Jr./Pat Robertson/etc. are just the worst.

If I could point at any one evangelical belief that for whatever reason offends this atheist, it's Prosperity Gospel. The idea that you should follow Christ so that material wealth will be drawn towards you, in correlation to how hardcore you are about Jesus. Of course this conveniently explains why the Joel Osteens of the world have mansions and private jets and so on- it's not a pyramid scheme, it's Christ's blessing magically seeping into their bank accounts on account of their innate holiness. But what's more depressing by far is that they've gotten so many people to actually believe that that's what's in the Bible.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#113

Post by jhbadger » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:11 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #85

icxa wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" In the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the effort.” Putnam cites the integration of institutions like the U.S. Army as proof that diversity can work." https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/…

The army life is not a good example; it is an intense, catalytic experience that accelerates and exaggerates processes that may not even appear in the real life. For many people their army buddies are the people they trust because they trusted their life to them, nothing like this happens for regular people.

It's not just the military in wartime though. My father was in the US Army in the late 1950s after the Korean ceasefire was signed but when they were still drafting soldiers to be deployed there. It was the first time he had any major interaction with African-Americans as they were rare in the small Northern town he grew up in. Serving alongside them and realizing that they weren't much different from himself was a significant experience for him.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#114

Post by throwawaysixthg » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #107

throwawaysixthg wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same problem. Hearing so good in quieter environments that it seems impossible to some people, and totally unable to make out a single word in a typical bar or club or party etc. I’ve always thought it had something to do with undiagnosed ADD, or maybe more likely some autism spectrum disorder (though I never understood why medical professionals felt the need to label something that feels to me mostly like a few comm…

Huh, the bit about emergency vehicle sirens is weird - because I'm exactly the same. If an emergency vehicle is driving past I have to cover my ears or otherwise it's just...painful? I've never seen anyone else do this.

Interesting! I’ve never seen anyone else do it either.

It’s similar to pain but it’s more like a sensory input at a level of intensity that is so overwhelming that it feels like it is or could cause permanent physical harm to whatever in my ear is receiving that input.

I guess I just described pain, but it feels a little different because the sensory input itself is the source of it, it’s not a side effect of anything else that’s happening, and it doesn’t really feel similar to any other kind of pain.

Fire alarms do this to me too. I lived in a building with false alarms every few weeks. I would like to have ignored them and continued working, but it is just impossible. I have to cover my ears and wait for the pauses between sounds to even do anything with my hands, like unplug a laptop or open a door.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#115

Post by pjc50 » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #87

As a 28-year old, I never understood the appeal of a pub as a meeting place. I think my main issue is that in loud places I just cannot for the life of me understand what is being said. I've had my hearing tested and it's absolutely fine, better than it should be at my age actually, and yet it's as if my ability to decode human speech goes to zero as soon as I'm in a loud environment, especially if there's sport even…

I have this - and a set of NHS hearing aids help, but do not completely fix the problem. It's worse when tired.

As others have said, it's also a pub design issue. Modernist open bright bars are very noisy; traditional pubs with wood paneling, carpets and snugs are much better.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#116

Post by pas » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #22

thinkingkong wrote: post #5

If we remove alcohol from the equation I think whats more pertinent is the death of the “third place”. Churches are dying. If the article is to be extrapolated then smaller local bars are dying. Where do people go other than online to socialize. Thats important to understand.

I honestly can't understand that at all. The "third place" has exploded and has never been more vibrant in the history of mankind, at least if you live in a city. Yoga classes, coffee shops, CrossFit, meetups, hiking groups, rock climbing, dance parties, marathons, evening painting classes where they serve wine, improv comedy shows, improv comedy classes, cooking classes, language classes, indie band shows of every t…

True, but ... this explosion and this embarrassment of riches also led to people not engaging with a "community of some interest group" (so a subculture), but just paying for it. In and out in a few hours.

To acquire friends one has to get to know people, and also people have to know one. It takes time to open up.

I'm not saying bars were this magical place. No. Bars were the place people who for some reason spent enough time together to get to a bar went to.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#117

Post by pas » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #58

icxa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My spitball opinion on that: we had diversity in America during the beginning of the industrial age that we heavily relied on for it's host of benefits, innovation primarily as well, but it didn't create the conflict (conflict theory terms) we see today because you were expected to integrate (conform) to be "American", which was a shared set of values and beliefs. America is still today one of the few geopolitical di…

Except your opinion does not actually follow from the facts. African Americans weren’t just “hyphenated subgroups” earlier. They weren’t even allowed to be in the same places as white male americans. Similarly, Chinese Americans formthe most part lived a separate life, and Japanese Americans were considered so different they were placed in internment camps during WW2. Even the Irish and Italians were treated differen…

It's quite possible that the US is at an inflection point. Now those hyphenated groups are spread so thin that they lost all their meaning. Now you can't find comfort in sameness, because yes, you share some common history, but you are also very different in other ways.

And thus people can't seem to find their place, can't seem to find friends, and the default fallback of going back to your people is no more.

This is just a very wild hypothesis of course.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#118

Post by talleyrand » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:27 PM UTC

rexgallorum2 wrote: post #14

Looks like the usual hatchetators are here to play. Bars and pubs are not the same. Bars just serve alcohol, but pubs are public living rooms and centres of communal life. A pub is where life's milestones are celebrated, the departed are grieved, friendships are cemented, matches are made, and revolutions are plotted. And some of us prefer the pleasures and pangs of gradual self-destruction to the quasi-religious cul…

"And some of us prefer the pleasures and pangs of gradual self-destruction to the quasi-religious cult of self-improvement."

Bravo!

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#119

Post by anotherevan » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

throwawaysixthg wrote: post #106

gambiting wrote: post #87

As a 28-year old, I never understood the appeal of a pub as a meeting place. I think my main issue is that in loud places I just cannot for the life of me understand what is being said. I've had my hearing tested and it's absolutely fine, better than it should be at my age actually, and yet it's as if my ability to decode human speech goes to zero as soon as I'm in a loud environment, especially if there's sport even…

Same problem. Hearing so good in quieter environments that it seems impossible to some people, and totally unable to make out a single word in a typical bar or club or party etc. I’ve always thought it had something to do with undiagnosed ADD, or maybe more likely some autism spectrum disorder (though I never understood why medical professionals felt the need to label something that feels to me mostly like a few comm…

You might want to investigate a condition called hyperacusis.

Re: Death of the Neighborhood Bar

#120

Post by notnarb » Sun, Aug 11, 2019, 10:16 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #89

jefftk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my life contra dancing fills this role. It's a place I can go to socialize with friends and strangers, dance, and listen to live music. There are dances all over the country, and when I'm traveling for work I often look up the local dance ( https://trycontra.com ) and drop in. Wherever I am I have a good time.

It is not the same. I used to go dancing for years, but most people were going to a bar after that to socialize. Some dance events are a combination of both (the milonga for Argentine tango), but I haven't seen one to replace it.

I think a country bar/dance hall/saloon is unique in this regard when it comes to social dancing destinations.

They are certainly not for everyone but I have yet to have found another type of social dancing venue that balances being a hangout spot and a place to dance.

Line dancing in particular brings something to the table outside of couples dancing that gives those not interested in the potentially-unfamiliar social situation of dancing with someone else a reason to go. I think that especially helps to keep these communities going.

Quick plug: I've been trying to catalog country venues (and their dances and songs) at https://dancedocket.com