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What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

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Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#51

Post by mmcnl »

1337shadow wrote: post #16

"DevOps" used to be a methodology where a Dev and an Ops share a same goal of delivering value into production, at least, that's in the book I have read. A sort of extension of the Lean System where workers from different areas share a common goal of delivering value to the final customer (in production), the same card may require a backend dev, frontend dev, and an ops to share the goal to take this card from idea t…

> - the above should be treated as impediments

Why do you say this? This only deflates the meaning of the word impediment. To me it would only create ambiguity when we start using the word impediment for things that are not impediments to the common goal. How would you differ between those?

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#52

Post by mixmastamyk »

freehunter wrote: post #48
solatic wrote: post #47

Great DevOps practitioners are rarer than 10x engineers. It's the combination of: * Systems knowledge through the lens of Conway's Law: what does an ideal even look like in terms of organizational efficiency * Leadership to get disparate teams in an organization to cooperate instead of compete * Technical competency to help disparate teams adopt the principles, because telling people on the fence to "go Google it" is…

At my day job I have a "devops" guy who is all-in on "devops". By which I mean he wants everything run through a CI/CD workflow, committed into change control, with passing unit tests, and tasks passing through a Jenkins pipeline. Did I mention we are information security consultants and work in neither dev nor ops? Yeah he wants our powerpoint slides checked into change control. I'm not joking.

I put docs in vcs, it is convenient. But, binary formats are less useful.

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#53

Post by fred_is_fred »

TurboHaskal wrote: post #42

In practice, and talking from my experience, unless you're one of the lucky few this is what it really means to do DevOps in 2019: - Forget what the books said, theory, semantics and idealism. You are a DevOps Engineer, working in a platform specific team. - You deal with Jenkins or similar, and consult other teams or developers to write scripts for it, or worse, do the work for them since they're too busy doing actu…

This is so accurate it makes me want to cry. Devops has become "run Jenkins & take page outs". 99.99% of enterprise devs (99.99% of those code in Java) have 0 clue what happens to their code after they commit it to Stash, and worse yet, they don't want to know. It's so bad now I'm embarrassed to have it on my LinkedIn profile.

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#54

Post by sk5t »

goatinaboat wrote: post #29
eropple wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I don't think you'd be doing "DevOps" all by yourself, unless you are what I call a full-stack, good at: communication, frontend, backend, and networking. This is pretty much how I sum up what you'd have to be to be "a devops engineer": an actually-full-stack developer with a strong facility for communication and for process. Such folks are hard to find. I only know a few, out of the dozens of folks I've worked…

you'd have to be to be "a devops engineer": an actually-full-stack developer Completely false. A full-stack developer applies JavaScript frameworks to create websites. A DevOps engineer applies development methods to infrastructure i.e. infrastructure-as-code. Totally different both skillset and mindset.

Is this a joke? "Full-stack" implies much broader skills than banging together Javascript frameworks (even if some of those frameworks are unrelated to websites).

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#55

Post by viraptor »

temac wrote: post #45
KronosNull wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the point that post and the parent comment are making. A "Real-full-stack" (actually-full-stack) would actually include communication + networking. I think it's more of a criticism on the term "full-stack" for someone who works on a backend and touches front-end every now and then. I think everyone is in agreement that what we call "dev0ps" devs and "full-stack" devs have completely different skill set…

That's quite arbitrary and you likely defined it as this to fit your current business or occupation. Or even just your current main competencies. I could say a real-full-stack should actually include EE, chip design, compiler design, kernel hacking, model checking, machine learning, virtual reality, power supply design, and 20 years of experience in Rust. Or anything, really.

I think you're missing the point a little by adding hardware and chucking in the 20 years experience with rust at the end. But, as long as you stay in software land, yes. I'm happy with real-full-stack description for experienced DevOps people who can say - I'm not a master of JS, but this caching strategy needs reorganisation on multiple levels, I can handle that. Or I'm not a master of kernel, but if we have this specific crash repeating, I'm happy to dig into it and create a patch/workaround. Whether you work with machine learning / VR / other environment changes the specific tech, not the idea.

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#56

Post by nodesocket »

I founded and run a DevOps consultancy (Elasticbyte.net) and fundamentally the biggest difference between daily DevOps work and typical software engineering is tooling. DevOps is all about the tooling, knowing which ones to use, and organizing and memorizing lots of details.

The majority of my time is either wrangling AWS, GCP or in tools such as Packer, Terraform, Ansible, Docker, Kubernetes, and writing bash scripts. I prefer DevOps now to writing traditional code as it is less down in the trenches nitty gritty code/math/logic and more higher level architecture and applying changes. I think it lends itself toward a slightly different personality type than a software developer.

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#57

Post by dijit »

mmcnl wrote: post #51
1337shadow wrote: post #16

"DevOps" used to be a methodology where a Dev and an Ops share a same goal of delivering value into production, at least, that's in the book I have read. A sort of extension of the Lean System where workers from different areas share a common goal of delivering value to the final customer (in production), the same card may require a backend dev, frontend dev, and an ops to share the goal to take this card from idea t…

> - the above should be treated as impediments Why do you say this? This only deflates the meaning of the word impediment. To me it would only create ambiguity when we start using the word impediment for things that are not impediments to the common goal. How would you differ between those?

Q: Does it fundamentally impede?

A: If yes, it is an impediment.

You say nothing to negate the assertion that the parents statements impede the organisation.

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#58

Post by dec0dedab0de »

TurboHaskal wrote: post #42

In practice, and talking from my experience, unless you're one of the lucky few this is what it really means to do DevOps in 2019: - Forget what the books said, theory, semantics and idealism. You are a DevOps Engineer, working in a platform specific team. - You deal with Jenkins or similar, and consult other teams or developers to write scripts for it, or worse, do the work for them since they're too busy doing actu…

My company calls what I do DevOps but I write full stack webapps to support the network operations team. I prefer to call it OpsDev, but noone seems to agree with me.

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#59

Post by hydesnark »

Remember that scene in Back to the Future 2 at the Enchantment Under the Sea dance when 1985 Marty had to somehow neutralize Biff’s thugs from the catwalk before they jumped 1955 Johnny-B-Goode-playing Marty, all while trying to avoid seeing him or else the universe would explode in a space-time paradox?

That’s DevOps.

Re: What I Do as a DevOps Consultant

#60

Post by chrissoundz »

tyingq wrote: post #3

"I’m not your...Sysadmin or other common role" What's described is very much like what a sysadmin was in the 90's, prior to more specialized roles.

I'm someone who kind of skipped the whole sysadmin thing and went straight to 'devops'. I think it's exactly the same thing - just with containers, docker, Kubernetes, build pipelines and so forth.

A better name might just be modern-sysadmin or sysadmin v2.

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