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I Paid a Bribe

ipaidabribe.com

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Re: I Paid a Bribe

#31

Post by sp332 »

thebooktocome wrote: post #22
burgerbrain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption? Do you get mad when other diners at your favourite restaurant tip better than you and get friendlier service for their trouble? Give me a break.

I have to agree with guelo. The services you describe are unadvertised for a reason. You're effectively asking someone from a lower class to possibly break the law (by getting paid under the table, and presumably not reporting the additional income) and possibly get into trouble with their employer because they want your extra money. If that's not a class issue, what is?

Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#32

Post by sp332 »

getonit wrote: post #28
burgerbrain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption? Do you get mad when other diners at your favourite restaurant tip better than you and get friendlier service for their trouble? Give me a break.

How can buying favours be anything other than a class issue?

Because you can be in the same class as the person you're buying a favor from. It doesn't require any class differences.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#33

Post by getonit »

sp332 wrote: post #32
getonit wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can buying favours be anything other than a class issue?

Because you can be in the same class as the person you're buying a favor from. It doesn't require any class differences.

That would seem to me to be beside the point: Buying favours requires some form of capital, which is more available to some classes than others. If you don't have any, you can't buy favours from any class - your own or otherwise.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#34

Post by khafra »

thebooktocome wrote: post #22
burgerbrain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tipping low-wage customer service workers for unadvertised services and favours is now some sort of evil "class" issue that indicates greed and corruption? Do you get mad when other diners at your favourite restaurant tip better than you and get friendlier service for their trouble? Give me a break.

I have to agree with guelo. The services you describe are unadvertised for a reason. You're effectively asking someone from a lower class to possibly break the law (by getting paid under the table, and presumably not reporting the additional income) and possibly get into trouble with their employer because they want your extra money. If that's not a class issue, what is?

Every scenario he described involves people who already make money from tips. If they underreport their tips, that's their own issue. I've read experimental reports from people attempting to bypass social conventions by means of $20 bills, and it only works when the bribee's job and legal status are not on the line.

I'm guessing that bypassing social conventions is where most of the outrage comes from. Queueing etiquette is something sacred; defectors face strong social punishment. Seems wrong to have someone taking something that's yours--your place in line--simply by having more money.

But queueing is just a non-monetary rationing system for a slightly scarce resource that most people don't care enough to pay for. It'd be fairer if everyone waiting participated in an auction for places in line, and the proceeds were distributed evenly, but unless you care enough to set that system up I think the moral outrage against people who buy the front position directly from the coordinator(s) of the queue is misplaced.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#35

Post by pbhjpbhj »

sp332 wrote: post #31
thebooktocome wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with guelo. The services you describe are unadvertised for a reason. You're effectively asking someone from a lower class to possibly break the law (by getting paid under the table, and presumably not reporting the additional income) and possibly get into trouble with their employer because they want your extra money. If that's not a class issue, what is?

Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically.

>Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically.

And there's a sign at the side of the road with the speed limit ...

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#36

Post by daniel-cussen »

der_ketzer wrote: post #9
ajays wrote: post #4

This is an interesting idea, but it needs some cachet to catch on. Don't get me wrong: India _needs_ this site, and needs it badly. Corruption and graft have become so bad that everyone from the top-most office down to the lowest level refuses to even lift a finger without getting his palm greased. Things have become so bad that officials are willing to cause a loss of billions of dollars to the taxpayer just to make…

I live in Mexiko. The corruption here is enourmous, from top to bottom. Wikileaks has showed this corruption. The problem IMHO with corruption is that nobody can/want to do something about it. It doesn't matter (at least here) if you collect all the proofs necessary, because the people that can do something about it are corrupt as well. And I don't think it's that easy to denounce bribes and send to jail the guilty o…

Moral values can go by percentiles. What you do is punish officials in the lowest percentiles of legality and thank and reward the officials in the highest percentiles of legality. Over time, there will be a shift toward the higher percentiles, and then you can raise standards.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#37

Post by steveklabnik »

sp332 wrote: post #31
thebooktocome wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with guelo. The services you describe are unadvertised for a reason. You're effectively asking someone from a lower class to possibly break the law (by getting paid under the table, and presumably not reporting the additional income) and possibly get into trouble with their employer because they want your extra money. If that's not a class issue, what is?

Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically.

hahahahahahahahaha. ha.

(No, seriously, I've worked in jobs where it's socially acceptable to get tipped. Unless you're a waitress that makes less than a minimum wage, nobody reports tips.)

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#38

Post by steveklabnik »

frisco wrote: post #5
ajays wrote: post #4

This is an interesting idea, but it needs some cachet to catch on. Don't get me wrong: India _needs_ this site, and needs it badly. Corruption and graft have become so bad that everyone from the top-most office down to the lowest level refuses to even lift a finger without getting his palm greased. Things have become so bad that officials are willing to cause a loss of billions of dollars to the taxpayer just to make…

>> Will you help us set up something like [WikiLeaks] in our town? >> There already is a WikiLeaks in your town: WikiLeaks. The corruption exposure business is [global], not regional. It's often forgotten that WikiLeaks isn't specifically aimed at the US, and the vast majority of their leaks until recently were from other parts of the world.

It's true, but with their 'maximum exposure' policy, and the fact that they've said they've still got the banks, other private industry, and the EU all lined up, I think it'll be a while before we see more stuff from WikiLeaks about non-Western countries.

Then again, maybe not.

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#39

Post by [deleted] »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #35
sp332 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically.

>Of course they report it, there's a spot on the tax return for "tips" specifically. And there's a sign at the side of the road with the speed limit ...

[deleted]

Re: I Paid a Bribe

#40

Post by SimonPStevens »

khafra wrote: post #34
thebooktocome wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to agree with guelo. The services you describe are unadvertised for a reason. You're effectively asking someone from a lower class to possibly break the law (by getting paid under the table, and presumably not reporting the additional income) and possibly get into trouble with their employer because they want your extra money. If that's not a class issue, what is?

Every scenario he described involves people who already make money from tips. If they underreport their tips, that's their own issue. I've read experimental reports from people attempting to bypass social conventions by means of $20 bills, and it only works when the bribee's job and legal status are not on the line. I'm guessing that bypassing social conventions is where most of the outrage comes from. Queueing etiqu…

To cite one example, the Alton Towers theme park in the UK has a ticketing system that allows you to pay more for "fast track" tickets.

Fast track tickets allow you to join a separate queue. The number of fast track tickets available are limited so the queues remain very short, and actual boarding of each ride is controlled so it is never dominated by fast track ticket holders.

The fast track ticket prices vary depending on which rides they are usable on, and how many times you can re-use them.

The system seems to work very well. Those who assign a high value to getting on every ride can opt to pay the extra for a more intense day. Those who are happy with the slow pace of a day out with some queueing can still afford the regular priced tickets.

There doesn't seem to be any moral or social stigma attached to those using the fast track system, but I think part of the reason is that it is perceived as fair, and everyone has the option to participate if they choose.

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