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Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

nytimes.com

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Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#121

Post by albanread »

putzdown wrote: post #117

This argument always leaves me scratching my head. I can’t see a difference between arguments for our living in a simulator and arguments for George Berkeley’s Idealism. It really seems as if the simulator theory is an atheistic rediscovery of theism, with the word “God” scratched out and the word “aliens” or “future us” written in. And if so, there’s a very long history of philosophy and theology—Descartes’s Meditat…

This seems worse than classic religion; we seek not just to believe the universe is a creative thought in Gods mind; we also plan to discover how Gods mind actually works; and look for flaws in creation. lets wish ourselves luck with that.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#122

Post by neilv »

> if our universe has been created by an advanced civilization for research purposes, then it is reasonable to assume that it is crucial to the researchers that we don’t find out that we’re in a simulation. If we were to prove that we live inside a simulation, this could cause our creators to terminate the simulation — to destroy our world.

Not necessarily. If we're in a simulation, then perhaps it's one that's a young superbeing's primary school science fair project, designed before they've learned much empathy.

If we're a child's school project, and we realize it, perhaps our best bet is to display some conspicuous redeeming value. Or at least be interesting.

Maybe we become an anecdote that boosts little Sally/Bobby Superbeing's application to a good superbeing college, and we end up preserved much longer, in a box of nostalgia in their parents' attic.

That would explain a lot.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#123

Post by jongomez »

ako wrote: post #85
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation? Most religions and gods purely exist as a way to implement law and order: define what is good and bad, and to manipulate people to behave accordingly (otherwise you will be punished in hell). Would simulation gods really be interested in us following good and bad rules, or more interested to see what happens if people do as they want? If this is a simulation, my…

"So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation?"

Well, I for one would be curious to find out more about these gods.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#124

Post by Igelau »

ako wrote: post #85
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation? Most religions and gods purely exist as a way to implement law and order: define what is good and bad, and to manipulate people to behave accordingly (otherwise you will be punished in hell). Would simulation gods really be interested in us following good and bad rules, or more interested to see what happens if people do as they want? If this is a simulation, my…

It's a component in an AGI that wants to see how many paperclips it can get from a particular strategy.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#125

Post by astrophysician »

grenoire wrote: post #92
avz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A simulation, at least as we'd understand it, would mean some kind of set variables and set rules. It would be entirely deterministic Why would the simulation be entirely deterministic? The simulations humans run often are not, see e.g. Monte Carlo simulations [1]. Also, the laws of physics as we presently know them are not completely deterministic either [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method [2…

Monte Carlo simulations' goal is to randomise the inputs, not the process. In this hypothetical simulation of life, it is the process that seems deterministic, and not the inputs. For Monte Carlo simulations, we want to be sure that we're not imparting the biases we have on the model into the execution of the process itself. As for quantum mechanics, it is only with out current understanding that we believe the proce…

Monte Carlo can be used to simulate any stochastic part of a process, not just inputs.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#126

Post by mar77i »

rland wrote: post #23

3 possibilities: - We are not living in a simulation. - We are living in a simulation, but it is a "perfect" simulation. There is no way to determine if we are in a simulation from within the simluation. - We are living in a simulation, and it is not perfect. It could be exploited from within itself. By far the most likely is 1 or 2, based on what we've observed, imho.

Do you also get that sci-fi arch with a portal and some computer controls in your room if you say "Arch" out loud?

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#127

Post by bitL »

everyone wrote: post #64
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

Gods always seems to pop up in discussions about this topic, which I find glib and annoying. We could prove the existence of the simulation runners. That does not suddenly mean theists were right. They would still be just as wrong as ever, making random assumptions without any evidence or scientific method at all. Lets say we were able to find out that the simulation runner looked and acted exactly like Zeus; that st…

It's more like the simulation authors can influence population of different places to have different religions, ideals and rules, to see which one would win. If you look at it, it could be some kind of optimization, you put different ideologies together and see how they interact (commerce, wars). This also allows avoiding cultural degeneracy, i.e. seeing some prosperous society turning into something horrible (e.g. sacrificing humans daily to make sun rise), that would be then killed off by a competing culture in an inevitable clash of cultures, leaving the stronger/more viable alive. I worry about globalization as a single unified culture because of human tendency to degenerate; having a cultural competition seems to be needed for humanity to progress.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#128

Post by justinclift »

jongomez wrote: post #123
ako wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation? Most religions and gods purely exist as a way to implement law and order: define what is good and bad, and to manipulate people to behave accordingly (otherwise you will be punished in hell). Would simulation gods really be interested in us following good and bad rules, or more interested to see what happens if people do as they want? If this is a simulation, my…

"So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation?" Well, I for one would be curious to find out more about these gods.

Also, sandbox escapes. :)

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#129

Post by hombre_fatal »

chc-sc wrote: post #99
kromem wrote: post #52

We are meant to know. If probability can be applied to the idea that we are in a simulation, than it can be applied to what kind of simulation (as the more likely, the more those would be run proportionally). What would be a great way to increase the odds? Recursion. Why this time period? Because if you don't understand your history you are doomed to repeat it. What's the point? Isn't there some really important thin…

What if the religious scripture is a lot more true than some people give it credit for?-- i.e. that it's the story of our ancestors interacting with the creators of the simulation

Surely our religious texts would be a lot more interesting in that case, just as they would be if actually influenced by an omniscient being.

Instead we have texts that contain nothing that couldn't have been written by the humans of that time.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#130

Post by taneq »

darawk wrote: post #13
incompatible wrote: post #3

The assumption seems to be that the purpose of the simulation is to investigate humans. In that case, why bother to simulate the entire Universe? Simulating the Solar System would be sufficient. The night sky could just as well be blank. Perhaps the stars have been included for aesthetic reasons? I suppose it's possible that in some simulations "they" do leave the sky blank, in others they include randomly distribute…

The universe we happen to inhabit is just the chosen world of the simulation. It may not bear much resemblance to base-level reality. In the same way that Skyrim's universe is different from ours.

Our universe being as similar to a putative 'outer' universe as Skyrim is to ours would be a good thing. I'd guess it's more likely we're like Core War to them.
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