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Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

nytimes.com

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Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#111

Post by insickness »

rapnie wrote: post #108
incompatible wrote: post #3

The assumption seems to be that the purpose of the simulation is to investigate humans. In that case, why bother to simulate the entire Universe? Simulating the Solar System would be sufficient. The night sky could just as well be blank. Perhaps the stars have been included for aesthetic reasons? I suppose it's possible that in some simulations "they" do leave the sky blank, in others they include randomly distribute…

Yes, and the simulation could very well be limited to just one person (and that person being you , of course).

The entire simulation could have started ten minutes ago, with false memories implanted.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#112

Post by dogma1138 »

philipov wrote: post #47
new299 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But physics as we understand it, isn't entirely deterministic. There seem to be a number of other potentially important differences between living in a simulation and some other kind of "baseline" reality. One of those might be that a simulation sits inside of some kind of outer reality. It could therefore potentially be effected by that outer reality.

Well, one of the three major interpretations of quantum mechanics is Superdeterminism, where there are hidden variables that make everything just appear to be quantum mechanical, and that's wacky enough to fit together with the idea the universe is a simulation.

Haven’t hidden variables pretty much been dismissed by loophole free bell experiments?

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#113

Post by lostmsu »

azinman2 wrote: post #90
kromem wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't we in the verge of creating AI? And we're kind of freaking out about if they'll kill us all? What if we could give them the experience of being human? Simulate the history leading up to it, along the lines of "if you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it." Split that larger AI into billions of tiny pieces to each experience love and loss. To collectively experience EVERYTHING. To understand the f…

No, not in terms of AGI. We’re no where near it. Don’t believe the hype.. we can just do what we previously could do, but more accurately. The truly hard problems still have no solution in sight.

Seems to be a very poor argument. How do you know what humans do is not what deep nets do now, but a bit more accurately?

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#114

Post by LogicalBorg »

I think there are two versions of the simulation hypothesis. The first version is that we are in a simulation that is run in the future with ourselves as ancestors. The second version is that we're simulated by aliens.

The first version seems wrong to me. Time is not a random variable. Either it is really the year 2019 and no such simulations of 2019 exist yet, or it is really the year 2100 and the year 2019 doesn't exist anymore. You can't choose at random between different years since they don't exist at the same time.

The alien version doesn't have that problem but it's also implausible since aliens have not been proven to exist and there is no particular reason for aliens to simulate us.

This discussion reminds me of Elon Musk's interest in traveling to Mars. Imagine you want to go to Mars and are too lazy to build a rocket to go there. So instead you go out to the desert to a place that looks exactly like Mars. Then you say this place in the desert looks exactly like a million places on Mars. You pick a place at random, which means that you inevitably pick a place on Mars. Then you say, "The odds are a million to one that I'm not standing on Mars right now! Because I picked Mars!"

That argument is just as bogus as the simulation argument. Probability isn't a cheap form of space travel and it's not a cheap form of time travel either. If you want to stand on Mars you're going to have to build an actual rocket and go there, not a probability experiment. If you want to experience virtual reality you're going to have to build it. You can't just probability it into existence by wishful thinking.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#115

Post by ThomPete »

LogicalBorg wrote: post #114

I think there are two versions of the simulation hypothesis. The first version is that we are in a simulation that is run in the future with ourselves as ancestors. The second version is that we're simulated by aliens. The first version seems wrong to me. Time is not a random variable. Either it is really the year 2019 and no such simulations of 2019 exist yet, or it is really the year 2100 and the year 2019 doesn't…

But who simulate the aliens then?

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#116

Post by Yetanfou »

ako wrote: post #85
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation? Most religions and gods purely exist as a way to implement law and order: define what is good and bad, and to manipulate people to behave accordingly (otherwise you will be punished in hell). Would simulation gods really be interested in us following good and bad rules, or more interested to see what happens if people do as they want? If this is a simulation, my…

Simulation gods would most likely be gods of chaos as that is what simulations are generally used for: to test the behaviour of a system in diverse and often adverse conditions.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#117

Post by putzdown »

This argument always leaves me scratching my head. I can’t see a difference between arguments for our living in a simulator and arguments for George Berkeley’s Idealism. It really seems as if the simulator theory is an atheistic rediscovery of theism, with the word “God” scratched out and the word “aliens” or “future us” written in. And if so, there’s a very long history of philosophy and theology—Descartes’s Meditations come to mind—that can help inform our questioning and experimentation, not to mention ease (or redirect) our fears.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#118

Post by joycian »

dogma1138 wrote: post #112
philipov wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one of the three major interpretations of quantum mechanics is Superdeterminism, where there are hidden variables that make everything just appear to be quantum mechanical, and that's wacky enough to fit together with the idea the universe is a simulation.

Haven’t hidden variables pretty much been dismissed by loophole free bell experiments?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdeterminism

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#119

Post by chr1 »

ako wrote: post #37
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

If simulations imply gods exist, humans must be gods, as we are doing plenty simulations.

Not just any simulation, but only a simulation with thinking creatures would imply that god exists. And not in a sense that our universe is created by a god, but in sense that creator of the simulation would be the god of the simulated universe.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#120

Post by chr1 »

dogma1138 wrote: post #112
philipov wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, one of the three major interpretations of quantum mechanics is Superdeterminism, where there are hidden variables that make everything just appear to be quantum mechanical, and that's wacky enough to fit together with the idea the universe is a simulation.

Haven’t hidden variables pretty much been dismissed by loophole free bell experiments?

Only the theories that are local in euclidean space. If we allow the entangled particles to transmit information between each other, or use non-locality (the way quantum mechanics does by allowing wave function collapse at once in the whole space) then bell experiments do not pose additional restrictions.
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