Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

nybooks.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 59 posts

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#41

Post by chupa »

deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

And at the same time the author shits on someone for defending Palestinians. (((They))) are all the same.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#42

Post by pjc50 »

hollerith wrote: post #37
i4t wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for a very small minority, aren't you all immigrants in the US? Or is there a rule for when immigrants can label themselves 'natives'?

American here. The way we use the word "immigrant" is that if you were born here and grew up here, you are not considered an immigrant.

Unless you're not white, in which case you're called an "anchor baby" or "second-generation immigrant".

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#43

Post by pjc50 »

deevolution wrote: post #6

The KISS solution would be to shoot all 1.4B cows on earth. That would slow climate change significantly and give us enough time to transition the world into using renewable resources. Also before I get downvoted for suggesting such an appalling idea as going on a cow murdering genocide, stop and reflect about the origin of that big piece of meat you ate for dinner tonight. Let's kill these cows once and for all.

Cow breeding is an almost entirely human-controlled process, we could phase them out in a few years while eating them unwastefully. But the problem is not the cows, it's the owners whose livelihoods you've stolen.

Also, destroying calorie production at gunpoint is historically a great way to start mass death human famines.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#44

Post by pjc50 »

deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists

This is the real problem. It doesn't matter if your ideas are good or even popular, if they're controversial enough the news media will magnify them for you.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#45

Post by southerntofu »

deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

[flagged]

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#46

Post by southerntofu »

Taniwha wrote: post #14
deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

For New Zealand it's 25%, Australia 22%, the UK 14%, France 9%, Germany 12%, Canada 22%, the Netherlands 19% Frankly 15% is about average for Western Countries

> France 9%

These numbers don't reflect the complex reality in France. Most of the population descends from immigration (although only 9% directly from their parents).

It's very rare especially in big cities to meet people with only "French" origins (except in the bourgeoisie). And even those "French" origins are ethnically/culturally varied (bretagne/ch'nord/occitanie/martinique/corse...) even though many people from these places will tell you they've been colonized by France and they want to get rid of the imperialist invader.

What i just said is probably true of other countries. I just know more about France.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#47

Post by roenxi »

Taniwha wrote: post #14
deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

For New Zealand it's 25%, Australia 22%, the UK 14%, France 9%, Germany 12%, Canada 22%, the Netherlands 19% Frankly 15% is about average for Western Countries

If you look at countries sorted by population [0] - and my justification for that is that communities don't scale up linearly - the US, Germany, Turkey and the UK are clear outliers.

And Australia isn't necessarily a target; Australia is basically importing a new population every century - ignoring natural population growth. That sort of growth requires a bit of thinking to justify; it isn't going to be for everyone. And if it is even achievable off a high starting population (without overwhelming infrastructure, etc) is questionable.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migra...

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#48

Post by carapace »

7952 wrote: post #31
carapace wrote: post #19

What was that? Hitler was a vegetarian? FWIW, the environment really is the ultimate non-partisan issue and I think we are about one or two heat waves or water shortages away from finding that out. This made me think we'll see unilateral geoengineering by e.g Bangladesh before it gets too hot: https://spaswell.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/dr-gwynne-dyer-geo... I don't think there's anything intrinsically authoritarian in…

At a local level environmental decisions are highly political. Try building a road, a wind farm, a cycle lane, or a pedestrian precinct and you will get a lot of anger and passion. And a lot of interventions have a number of unintended consequences that affect people. A lot of these environmental decisions have winners and losers. That makes them political and partisan. But politicians often don't want to deal with t…

Personally, I think the problem is Spiritual, and no amount of politics will fix it. We are divorced from Nature, we treat life as a thing to exploit rather than neighbors to live with. I don't think we can save ourselves without a deep shift in our world view, a renewal of our relationship with life.

I think we will either reach a crisis and transform (in a biologically-rooted variant of the Singularity, IRL not cyberspace) or we will crash and burn.

Of course, there's a third possibility: we scrape by without crashing and without spiritual renaissance, e.g. some combination of geo-engineering and ecological agriculture lets us off the climate-apocalypse hook. In the first two scenarios we don't need politics anymore, but in the third it still exists and is caught up in the strange loops of modern space-age-a-go-go life.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#49

Post by deevolution »

jesssse wrote: post #26
deevolution wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a significant contributor of methane. This change wont happen overnight of course but more alt meat companies such as beyond meat and impossible burger will be able to engineer superior food products that will eventually price real meat out of the market. The cow populations will suffer slowly as will their corporate slave masters.

Cows are happier being farmed than not being.

As a human maximalist, I could care less about what those cows think. The problem we face as a society is that too many of us are cow maximalist to the point we're prioritizing these cows lives over our own. Buying that cheese burger at McDonalds is a vote for more cows which has far more negative externalities than eating veggies.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#50

Post by deogeo »

southerntofu wrote: post #45
deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

[flagged]

> Giving everyone equal rights and opportunities is a supposedly founding principle of your "democracy".

It's not 'my' democracy - I and my ancestors remained in Europe. And lets not engage in revisionist history - that founding principle was explicitly limited to "free White persons of good character" [1]. While the at once ineffective and cruel manner the US enforces its borders leaves much to be desired, that doesn't make the very concept of controlling immigration unjust. There are countries other besides the US to immigrate to.

As for your comparison with Nazi Germany, perhaps it would have more weight if the US was incredibly restrictive with immigration (and, as always in these matters, ignoring that people weren't scrambling to get into Nazi Germany..) But as it stands, not only does the US have the largest rate of immigration in the world [2] (though not per-capita), but it also grants citizenship to anyone born there - a practice almost exclusive to the Americas [3].

I'm sorry if this reply seems harsh, but I find it utterly mind-boggling how you could compare the Nazi ethno-state, to a country where the majority ethnicity is voluntarily becoming a minority. They are going from 87% white in 1970 [4], to minority-white in 2044 [5]. That's in 74 years, a single lifespan, from overwhelming majority, to minority. Literally the opposite of what Nazi Germany was doing. But if this is comparable to ethnic cleansing, then what does that make almost all other countries? Some sort of ultra-nazis?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migra...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_State...

[5] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/22/us/white-americans-minori...

Post reply on HN