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The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

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Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#31

Post by 7952 »

carapace wrote: post #19

What was that? Hitler was a vegetarian? FWIW, the environment really is the ultimate non-partisan issue and I think we are about one or two heat waves or water shortages away from finding that out. This made me think we'll see unilateral geoengineering by e.g Bangladesh before it gets too hot: https://spaswell.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/dr-gwynne-dyer-geo... I don't think there's anything intrinsically authoritarian in…

At a local level environmental decisions are highly political. Try building a road, a wind farm, a cycle lane, or a pedestrian precinct and you will get a lot of anger and passion. And a lot of interventions have a number of unintended consequences that affect people.

A lot of these environmental decisions have winners and losers. That makes them political and partisan. But politicians often don't want to deal with that. They want to delegate authority to a bunch of experts and independent organisations who can make objective decisions. Except there are still loosers who will be angry. And they just see a faceless beurocracy that doesn't care what they think.

We should accept that the environment is political and try and win the argument. Stop relying on science and actually pursuade people on an emotional and moral level.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#32

Post by dsq »

deevolution wrote: post #6

The KISS solution would be to shoot all 1.4B cows on earth. That would slow climate change significantly and give us enough time to transition the world into using renewable resources. Also before I get downvoted for suggesting such an appalling idea as going on a cow murdering genocide, stop and reflect about the origin of that big piece of meat you ate for dinner tonight. Let's kill these cows once and for all.

Are there any steers in the theater tonight? Get 'em up against the wall...

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#33

Post by hrktb »

Taniwha wrote: post #16
colechristensen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and Japan are both quite unfriendly to outsiders and ridiculous choices to compare with a country formed almost entirely of immigrants from the quite recent past.

In the past few years Japan has realised it's heading for demographic issues, it's opening up its immigration, I expect this to change quite quickly

Did it become any easier to get a permanent visa for instance ?

Japan has a long history of allowing a mass of low wage workers to come in with very bounded conditions (work limited to elderly care for instance) and it rarely translates to the worker staying in Japan ore than a few years. I don’t know if it’s what you were thinking about ?

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#34

Post by Taniwha »

hrktb wrote: post #33
Taniwha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past few years Japan has realised it's heading for demographic issues, it's opening up its immigration, I expect this to change quite quickly

Did it become any easier to get a permanent visa for instance ? Japan has a long history of allowing a mass of low wage workers to come in with very bounded conditions (work limited to elderly care for instance) and it rarely translates to the worker staying in Japan ore than a few years. I don’t know if it’s what you were thinking about ?

Possibly for some

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2018/12/04/commentary/j...

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#35

Post by pmontra »

i4t wrote: post #30
deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

Except for a very small minority, aren't you all immigrants in the US? Or is there a rule for when immigrants can label themselves 'natives'?

This is how Europeans (and maybe not only us) commonly think about Americans, all immigrants from Europe first, from the rest of the world next. However probably it's not how they think about themselves. I'd like to hear from them.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#36

Post by Taniwha »

jgmjgm wrote: post #18
Taniwha wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For New Zealand it's 25%, Australia 22%, the UK 14%, France 9%, Germany 12%, Canada 22%, the Netherlands 19% Frankly 15% is about average for Western Countries

I think talking about averages is somewhat misleading. There has been a steep upward trend in the US and Europe. In the 1960s we'd be talking about less than 5% for the US and Europe so that is a big change. It's fair to say that there have been major policy changes over the past 50 years but it's misleading -- I'm not accusing you, just pointing out -- to say it's an average because that implies a steady state. I do…

Maybe "average" was the wrong word, perhaps "unremarkable" is a better one.

Before Trump the US was proud to describe itself as a nation of immigrants (I was one for 20 years) but Americans have this myth that they take in far more immigrants than anywhere else, it's just not true

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#37

Post by hollerith »

i4t wrote: post #30
deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

Except for a very small minority, aren't you all immigrants in the US? Or is there a rule for when immigrants can label themselves 'natives'?

American here. The way we use the word "immigrant" is that if you were born here and grew up here, you are not considered an immigrant.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#38

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

jesssse wrote: post #26
deevolution wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a significant contributor of methane. This change wont happen overnight of course but more alt meat companies such as beyond meat and impossible burger will be able to engineer superior food products that will eventually price real meat out of the market. The cow populations will suffer slowly as will their corporate slave masters.

Cows are happier being farmed than not being.

[citation needed]

The extinct elephant in the room is the fact that those cows are going to be slaughtered for food anyway.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#39

Post by jgmjgm »

Taniwha wrote: post #36
jgmjgm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think talking about averages is somewhat misleading. There has been a steep upward trend in the US and Europe. In the 1960s we'd be talking about less than 5% for the US and Europe so that is a big change. It's fair to say that there have been major policy changes over the past 50 years but it's misleading -- I'm not accusing you, just pointing out -- to say it's an average because that implies a steady state. I do…

Maybe "average" was the wrong word, perhaps "unremarkable" is a better one. Before Trump the US was proud to describe itself as a nation of immigrants (I was one for 20 years) but Americans have this myth that they take in far more immigrants than anywhere else, it's just not true

Well it does a pretty remarkable job. Recall too that the stats are foreign born as a percentage of the population (Peri, 2016 that I mentioned above).

The USA is larger than all Canada, Australia, UK and NZ combined. So, let's not pretend that the US is not taking new comers at all. We're still in the ballpark of close to 50 million people. This compares to about 7 million in Canada.

Re: The Menace of Eco-Fascism (2018)

#40

Post by empath75 »

deogeo wrote: post #2

> The sheer novelty of Dooley’s existence has proven irresistible to journalists—netting her gawking profiles in The New Yorker, Harper’s, and on National Public Radio—but that coverage has tended to obscure her extremism. Alongside advocating for sustainable energy, Dooley’s other pet issues are opposing amnesty for undocumented immigrants and increasing border security. Enforcing current immigration law, which woul…

Close to 100% of Americans are descended from people who were foreign born.
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