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Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

nytimes.com

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Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#81

Post by bellerosee »

ozzmotik wrote: post #71
sysbin wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We likely have free will, but it's like playing chess with Google's AI. You may choose which move you make, but the outcome is already determined. Can you explain to me how you made that leap from what you were writing? I don't believe in free will and because I think everything is deterministic. Even if you die in this simulation and had the opportunity to decide what you want next. That's based on all the forces…

i find it interesting that there are people who believe the universe is entirely deterministic in nature. I wouldn't suggest that it necessarily isn't, but more that it's a spectrum. free will is an evolved and developed trait, an aspect of life that got reinforced more and more over time as the vessels of life became more capable to actually exert influence upon the experience of reality itself. but even free will e…

I'm sorry but can you rephrase that for me. I don't understand how someone can be in a deterministic system and expect to not be deterministic as well. Nobody chooses their birth and what comes after isn't any different to me. We're shaped by genetics & environment conditions and all the external forces is everything around us. All working on one another and based on the preceding forces that were already exerted upon us.

I just cannot see non-determinism working with determinism. Maybe if you rephrase it? Your definition of free will might not be mine as well. I always think people that think they have free will are just having a very privileged life and cannot assume they had no control over anything because of the ego that was built because of the success that really wasn't their doing. Btw I'm person you're replying to. HN says i'm posting too fast. Maybe email me at alizeebellerose @ icloud.com if you can because I'm interested in understanding how determinism can work with non-determinism.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#82

Post by RealityVoid »

rasz wrote: post #61
tyre wrote: post #10

I've never been entirely sure why this debate matters. A simulation, at least as we'd understand it, would mean some kind of set variables and set rules. It would be entirely deterministic, but you have to run it to see what happens. That kind of sounds like…physics? You have some basic elements like atoms and energy plus some set rules like conservation of mass, laws of thermodynamics, and the rest. Sure, we don't k…

Once you know rules of the game you can look for flaws/glitches and start cheating.

That is, assuming there are flaws/glitches. There might not be.

Regardless, we're looking for glitches plenty, that is in my view, what modern physics is about. The study of glitches in our model and the adjusting of our model accordingly.

If we were in a simulation the "glitches" would probably be something small and subtle, at sub-atomic level, not something that teleports you or gives you superpowers.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#83

Post by Animats »

mpoteat wrote: post #40
Animats wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption seems to be that the purpose of the simulation is to investigate humans. In that case, why bother to simulate the entire Universe? Right. And why so much unnecessary detail down to the quark level? (Of course, if you really like the simulation idea, maybe we're in an unimportant corner of the simulation and the real action being observed is elsewhere. Much simulation-hypothesis blithering has the same…

Floating point has a finite resolution, and so does the position of subatomic entities, it turns out. I'm sure it's just a coincidence. :)

No, floating point would result in physics behaving differently depending on distance from the origin, which is a problem with some game physics engines.

(More promising was Wolfram's attempt to define physics in terms of cellular automata, which does not seem to have worked out.)

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#84

Post by RealityVoid »

tyre wrote: post #10

I've never been entirely sure why this debate matters. A simulation, at least as we'd understand it, would mean some kind of set variables and set rules. It would be entirely deterministic, but you have to run it to see what happens. That kind of sounds like…physics? You have some basic elements like atoms and energy plus some set rules like conservation of mass, laws of thermodynamics, and the rest. Sure, we don't k…

I think that if we found out tomorrow that we are living inside a simulation, it would be interesting for about 5 minutes and then we would carry with our life exactly as before.

It would not have any sort of bearing on our lives, we couldn't break it or transcend it. Our feelings and our lives would feel just as real as before.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#85

Post by ako »

incompatible wrote: post #22
tyre wrote: post #10

I've never been entirely sure why this debate matters. A simulation, at least as we'd understand it, would mean some kind of set variables and set rules. It would be entirely deterministic, but you have to run it to see what happens. That kind of sounds like…physics? You have some basic elements like atoms and energy plus some set rules like conservation of mass, laws of thermodynamics, and the rest. Sure, we don't k…

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation? Most religions and gods purely exist as a way to implement law and order: define what is good and bad, and to manipulate people to behave accordingly (otherwise you will be punished in hell).

Would simulation gods really be interested in us following good and bad rules, or more interested to see what happens if people do as they want?

If this is a simulation, my assumption is that it is to test if any highly intelligent and successful species is destined to destroy itself...

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#86

Post by mkagenius »

longsangstan wrote: post #33
mkagenius wrote: post #11

Talking about we being in simulation will go down in history as the "era of stupid thoughts"

Do you have any argument against this "stupid thought"?

It's the equivalent of people arguing there is a "god", a supreme power which decides everything for us. It's a figment of our imagination, germinating from our hunter gatherer days where a leader was in control of the gang and decided everything for all the members.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#87

Post by onion2k »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #30
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

In the spirit of Dan Dennett: then who simulated those gods? Super duper gods?

Maybe we did. Maybe it's circular.

At least that would mean the state of the universe isn't stored in a JSON object. That'd be nice to know.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#88

Post by hansjorg »

ako wrote: post #85
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

So what would it mean if there are gods of simulation? Most religions and gods purely exist as a way to implement law and order: define what is good and bad, and to manipulate people to behave accordingly (otherwise you will be punished in hell). Would simulation gods really be interested in us following good and bad rules, or more interested to see what happens if people do as they want? If this is a simulation, my…

What if it's just a really detailed astrophysics simulation and any life is just coincidental and without interest to the ones running the simulation.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#89

Post by ncmncm »

fooker wrote: post #9
p1esk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They only have to simulate the signals we get about the Universe, not the Universe itself.

Right, and sometimes they can mess up. One example could be the star found recently to be older than the universe!

I was driving from Portland, Oregon, to Seattle, once, and the moon was dead ahead. Caught 'em!

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#90

Post by azinman2 »

kromem wrote: post #70
mbil wrote: post #12

I like the ancestor simulation theory and it's really fun to think about. But I don't understand why humans specifically would be the thing to get simulated. Couldn't we just be a bi-product of a universe created to simulate something else? I mean imagine you wanted to simulate a universe -- given enough computing resources you could simulate a universe's worth of atoms, and humans might just be an accidental artifac…

Aren't we in the verge of creating AI? And we're kind of freaking out about if they'll kill us all? What if we could give them the experience of being human? Simulate the history leading up to it, along the lines of "if you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it." Split that larger AI into billions of tiny pieces to each experience love and loss. To collectively experience EVERYTHING. To understand the f…

No, not in terms of AGI. We’re no where near it. Don’t believe the hype.. we can just do what we previously could do, but more accurately. The truly hard problems still have no solution in sight.
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