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Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

nytimes.com

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Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#41

Post by mpoteat »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #20
incompatible wrote: post #3

The assumption seems to be that the purpose of the simulation is to investigate humans. In that case, why bother to simulate the entire Universe? Simulating the Solar System would be sufficient. The night sky could just as well be blank. Perhaps the stars have been included for aesthetic reasons? I suppose it's possible that in some simulations "they" do leave the sky blank, in others they include randomly distribute…

Maybe the rest of the universe is being cheaply simulated, the simulator only computing what we observe. And it isn’t like it has to do anything for what is outside of our observable universe.

It would explain the Fermi paradox.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#42

Post by airocker »

ako wrote: post #37
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

If simulations imply gods exist, humans must be gods, as we are doing plenty simulations.

And that god could be an evil monopolist?

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#43

Post by everyone »

In the article they hypothesize that the simulation's purpose could be a historical / social one, hence humans..

But that seems like a quite anthropocentric idea. I think it would be less presumptive to theorize that the simulations' purpose is pure physics or math, or something else entirely, and life and humans are just an emergent phenomena.

So basically, the exact same way of thinking as in conventional cosmology/physics without assuming we are in a simulation, according to the anthropic principle.

Also, why does the universe we experience need to be an actual representation of the simulation? Maybe the universe we experience is just a by-product of all that computation.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#44

Post by Iv »

mbil wrote: post #12

I like the ancestor simulation theory and it's really fun to think about. But I don't understand why humans specifically would be the thing to get simulated. Couldn't we just be a bi-product of a universe created to simulate something else? I mean imagine you wanted to simulate a universe -- given enough computing resources you could simulate a universe's worth of atoms, and humans might just be an accidental artifac…

I even think it is more likely that we are not the focus. If I wanted to study humans, I'd just create some and watch them do, I would not bother with simulating evolution, or alternatively burying fossils and creating a whole phylogenetic tree.

It is very likely that what we consider important and what this simulation is supposed to be studying are going to be totally disjoint.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#45

Post by virgilp »

ako wrote: post #37
incompatible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proving that the Universe is a simulation would be proving the existence of gods. Considering how much effort humans have dedicated to this question over the millennia, and the various consequences, and the continuing influence on the lives of the majority of people, I would say it matters.

If simulations imply gods exist, humans must be gods, as we are doing plenty simulations.

For the simulated entities? Yes you are - you have absolute power over the simulation.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#46

Post by sysbin »

new299 wrote: post #27
tyre wrote: post #10

I've never been entirely sure why this debate matters. A simulation, at least as we'd understand it, would mean some kind of set variables and set rules. It would be entirely deterministic, but you have to run it to see what happens. That kind of sounds like…physics? You have some basic elements like atoms and energy plus some set rules like conservation of mass, laws of thermodynamics, and the rest. Sure, we don't k…

But physics as we understand it, isn't entirely deterministic. There seem to be a number of other potentially important differences between living in a simulation and some other kind of "baseline" reality. One of those might be that a simulation sits inside of some kind of outer reality. It could therefore potentially be effected by that outer reality.

Physics can be entirely deterministic. What we believe is quantum physics can be the result of local hidden variables. Even multiple universes that are interfering with one another. Also the possibility that what we cannot measure as a repeating pattern under fixed conditions, is in fact following a pattern but not within our lifetimes to measure. There are so many possibilities that can make something appear random but in fact is truly deterministic.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#47

Post by philipov »

new299 wrote: post #27
tyre wrote: post #10

I've never been entirely sure why this debate matters. A simulation, at least as we'd understand it, would mean some kind of set variables and set rules. It would be entirely deterministic, but you have to run it to see what happens. That kind of sounds like…physics? You have some basic elements like atoms and energy plus some set rules like conservation of mass, laws of thermodynamics, and the rest. Sure, we don't k…

But physics as we understand it, isn't entirely deterministic. There seem to be a number of other potentially important differences between living in a simulation and some other kind of "baseline" reality. One of those might be that a simulation sits inside of some kind of outer reality. It could therefore potentially be effected by that outer reality.

Well, one of the three major interpretations of quantum mechanics is Superdeterminism, where there are hidden variables that make everything just appear to be quantum mechanical, and that's wacky enough to fit together with the idea the universe is a simulation.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#49

Post by mpoteat »

rland wrote: post #23

3 possibilities: - We are not living in a simulation. - We are living in a simulation, but it is a "perfect" simulation. There is no way to determine if we are in a simulation from within the simluation. - We are living in a simulation, and it is not perfect. It could be exploited from within itself. By far the most likely is 1 or 2, based on what we've observed, imho.

When was the last time you wrote perfect software? Personally never in my case. The possibility of complex, provably correct software is pretty unlikely I think due to fundamental logical reasons.

I think any ancestor researcher would have at least some bugs in their code.

Re: Are We Living in a Computer Simulation? Let’s Not Find Out

#50

Post by sysbin »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #20
incompatible wrote: post #3

The assumption seems to be that the purpose of the simulation is to investigate humans. In that case, why bother to simulate the entire Universe? Simulating the Solar System would be sufficient. The night sky could just as well be blank. Perhaps the stars have been included for aesthetic reasons? I suppose it's possible that in some simulations "they" do leave the sky blank, in others they include randomly distribute…

Maybe the rest of the universe is being cheaply simulated, the simulator only computing what we observe. And it isn’t like it has to do anything for what is outside of our observable universe.

Like Lazy loading (also called on-demand loading)!
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