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The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

palladiummag.com

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Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#81

Post by bsder »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #61

I find this piece fascinating. To honor it I offer a tl; dr 1. Author recounts experiences of people lying about their class/wealth at Yale, often feigning less wealth. 2. Explains behavior 1 as style, safety, loss-of-perspective, and avoiding social responsibility 3. Retells several incidents where a vocal minority of students at Yale picked and won battles over verbiage (e.g. emails, Calhoun, "Master of college").…

> 4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Contrasts these protests against Vietnam protests.

I tend to agree. I view the "tempest in a teapot" protests that go after some academic functionary in the same light as I view most of the animal rights protesters--deeply hypocritical.

You don't see these college students go after someone with actual power just like you don't see the animal rights advocates throw paint on Hell's Angels for wearing leather.

Protest is good--until you you might actually face consequences for your protest. Sorry, protest without consequences isn't a real protest.

If the Yale students want to protest, we have an oversupply of things that need to be protested--feel free to join us. But, these might upset people with real power, they might get arrested, they might wind up with a criminal record like the plebeians and that might upset their getting that cushy Goldman-Sachs position in a couple years.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#82

Post by alexandercrohde »

finolex1 wrote: post #69

This article strikes me as extraploating a select few experiences to make far reaching conclusions. 99% of the people at yale are not children of billionaires or statesmen. They are children of doctors, lawyers, programmers, etc. who are wealthy but not wealthy enough to live off their inheritance indefinitely. People attend classes, do research, play sports, or put up performances - in short what's been going on for…

Do you have a source for the claim that 99% of attendees of Yale don't have enough money to live off their inheritance indefinitely?

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#83

Post by gedy »

mieseratte wrote: post #67
NaturalGlass wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment kinda baffles me, mostly cause of the implication that "identity politics" progressives don't talk about economic inequality enough. Not sure where exactly that is the case, except maybe in pop feminism that wants more black women of color to be billionaires. But that kind of thinking is widely criticized by the left too.

In my experience they do not take it into consideration at all. I’ve been told far too many times by silver-spoon identity-politic progressives that I don’t get a say because of racial and gender privilege, with no regard for any economic struggle. You’ll have to forgive me for daring to ask if renaming buildings of alumni who held what are now regressive views is the hill to die on. Of course it’s a black-and-white…

This has been my experience as well. My favorite was being "schooled" by a woman who had grown up overseas: with servants who'd wait at her feet, private prep schools, US top private college paid in full by parents, etc. Then telling me how privileged I was. Growing up lower class American definitely did not see a lot of privileges..

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#84

Post by galimaufry »

bsder wrote: post #81
alexandercrohde wrote: post #61

I find this piece fascinating. To honor it I offer a tl; dr 1. Author recounts experiences of people lying about their class/wealth at Yale, often feigning less wealth. 2. Explains behavior 1 as style, safety, loss-of-perspective, and avoiding social responsibility 3. Retells several incidents where a vocal minority of students at Yale picked and won battles over verbiage (e.g. emails, Calhoun, "Master of college").…

> 4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Contrasts these protests against Vietnam protests. I tend to agree. I view the "tempest in a teapot" protests that go after some academic functionary in the same light as I view most of the animal rights protesters--deeply hypocritical. You don't see these college students go after so…

> You don't see these college students go after someone with actual power just like you don't see the animal rights advocates throw paint on Hell's Angels for wearing leather.

This is a strange example of inconsequential protest, as the movement against furs was highly successful.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#85

Post by shkkmo »

nyxxie wrote: post #48

I think the author is ascribing too much intent to a simple economy of shame that’s omnipresent in all classes; if people find out you have more than they do, they hate you. The author herself appears to be biased by this. She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic that suggests that because they have more, they necessaril…

> as he[sic] observes all of them have learned that in order to pursue these goals unmolested they have to put on the cloak of being less privileged than those around them.

This isn't really the issue. The issue is not that they are pretending, it is that they are forgetting that they are pretending.

> We forget the extent of our own power and start blaming an ephemeral elite beyond ourselves for the ills of society.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#86

Post by parsimo2010 »

galimaufry wrote: post #84
bsder wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Contrasts these protests against Vietnam protests. I tend to agree. I view the "tempest in a teapot" protests that go after some academic functionary in the same light as I view most of the animal rights protesters--deeply hypocritical. You don't see these college students go after so…

> You don't see these college students go after someone with actual power just like you don't see the animal rights advocates throw paint on Hell's Angels for wearing leather. This is a strange example of inconsequential protest, as the movement against furs was highly successful.

You’re kind of illustrating GP’s point. Throwing paint on a fashionista wearing fur poses very little risk- compare the risk to a Hell’s Angels biker who might literally kill you. And furs were always expensive which kept the quantity relatively low- compare the number of fur animals killed to the number that are killed for their hides to make car interiors, house furniture, clothing, and more.

If the fur protesters want to make a big impact they should protest leather, but you don’t see that. Instead they took their smaller symbolic victory because the meaningful fight is too hard and too risky.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#87

Post by [deleted] »

galimaufry wrote: post #84
bsder wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Contrasts these protests against Vietnam protests. I tend to agree. I view the "tempest in a teapot" protests that go after some academic functionary in the same light as I view most of the animal rights protesters--deeply hypocritical. You don't see these college students go after so…

> You don't see these college students go after someone with actual power just like you don't see the animal rights advocates throw paint on Hell's Angels for wearing leather. This is a strange example of inconsequential protest, as the movement against furs was highly successful.

[deleted]

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#88

Post by ikeboy »

>But this low number of 2% surprised me because when I was at Yale, everybody kept talking about how broke they were.

>“Want to go out for brunch?” “I can’t—I’m so broke.” This was a common line.

Seems like a huge stretch to assume this is a lie. The 2% figure is for the bottom quintile. The same source says the median family income for Yale students is 192k. That's perfectly consistent with a student who's taking on a heavy debt load to not have much disposable income. The family could have several kids, perhaps be paying partial tuition for 2 kids and have basically no money to give their kid aside from the minimum for food and board.

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#89

Post by [deleted] »

tossAfterUsing wrote: post #62
inflatableDodo wrote: post #17

You should see what happens when these people leave university and continue the charade in a variety of broken down diesels. A lot of the worst behaviour I have ever seen by people in travelling communities has been from the expensively educated children of the exceedingly rich, pretending to be gypsies.

the woke-est girl i ever met was from the ivy league, the daughter of state department parents. she'd been 'traveling' for a year, and just returned to the bay area... to sleep on a filthy couch in the warehouse where i was living with a handful of other folks. except for the dreadlocks, filth, and b.o., she was as white as the driven snow. she lectured me for 40 minutes. when i told her i was raised by a single moth…

[deleted]

Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech

#90

Post by burkaman »

bsder wrote: post #81
alexandercrohde wrote: post #61

I find this piece fascinating. To honor it I offer a tl; dr 1. Author recounts experiences of people lying about their class/wealth at Yale, often feigning less wealth. 2. Explains behavior 1 as style, safety, loss-of-perspective, and avoiding social responsibility 3. Retells several incidents where a vocal minority of students at Yale picked and won battles over verbiage (e.g. emails, Calhoun, "Master of college").…

> 4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Contrasts these protests against Vietnam protests. I tend to agree. I view the "tempest in a teapot" protests that go after some academic functionary in the same light as I view most of the animal rights protesters--deeply hypocritical. You don't see these college students go after so…

> You don't see these college students go after someone with actual power

What a bizarre claim.

Protesting their own college administration, and getting arrested for it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/05/08/arrests-...

Hunger strike, football team strike, and many other protests resulting in university president resignation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_University_of_...

Protesting the CIA director, who I hope counts as someone "with actual power" - https://upennstatesman.org/2016/04/01/violent-protests-end-t...

I imagine almost every college in the country has had protests against the president: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/11/0...

Arrested protesting at their state government: https://www.concordmonitor.com/UNH-students-protesting-votin...

Arrested protesting ICE: https://middleburycampus.com/45615/news/two-midd-students-ar...

Yale students arrested protesting their administration: https://www.nhregister.com/news/article/Yale-students-arrest...

Arrested protesting Israel occupation: https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/15-jewish-college-students-a...

You can find many more examples with ~5 minutes of research.

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