What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type? • Hacker News Board

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#211

Post by pknopf » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

bspammer wrote: post #206

hilyen wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out. Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms. Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

I'm 23 and have been using computers very heavily for the last 10 or so years - probably an average of 6 hours a day. During a particularly intensive day of typing last week I started getting pain in my right hand. I had to resort to hunt-and-peck index finger typing to get the feature I was working on finished. I'm horrified, it feels like I'm way too early in my career for something like this to happen, but I guess…

I learned to use mouse with my other hand. I was literally forced to one day, out of pain.

Took me 2 days to feel normal with it.

Nowadays, I juggle back and forth, depending on comfort.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#212

Post by Arathorn » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

Stratoscope wrote: post #105

This won't help anyone who has lost the use of their hands, but I have some advice for touch typists who use a standard keyboard like a laptop or typical desktop keyboard: don't bend your wrists. Of course most people know about the ergonomic advice to have your keyboard at the right height so your wrists don't have to bend up or down. But I often see people typing with a horizontal bend in their wrists so that their…

Anecdata alert: For what it's worth, I am relatively sure that the key factor in developing (and then avoiding) RSI for me at least is sitting posture. This may in turn be impacting the wrist posture when typing, but I've systematically realised that when starting to feel RSI that it's coincident with having started slouching or hunching at my desk (or using a different physical layout). Fixing that (and taking it easy for a bit) managed to stave off disaster.

The other revelation has been that general stress levels massively impact one's posture; if I'm stressing about something the entire upper half of my body tenses up, causing me to hunch over the keyboard (and, almost without noticing it, type about 5x harder than normal). And this probably ends up being the root cause for me.

Just mentioning it in case anyone else had failed to spot a stress -> tensing up -> bad posture -> RSI -> stress feedback loop...

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#213

Post by redact207 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

In the last few years I've reached zen with keyboard comfort. The 2 biggest changes have been:

1. Get the flattest, lowest keyboard you can. I use an external Mac keyboard and keep it flat to the desk.

2. Move the keyboard as far away as possible from you. This extends your arms out further so your wrists aren't compensating by bending for being so close.

I've recently started using a standing desk and found it useful to bring it in a position just below my armpits so it supports my outstretched arms.

It sounds a bit odd, but I have no pain, discomfort or tiredness.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#214

Post by pknopf » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

csallen wrote: post #25

This story resonates. A few years back I was dealing with mild pain while coding. I stupidly ignored it for months as it got significantly worse, to the point where it became impossible to type for extended periods. I tried lots of things. My doctor did a nerve conduction study, which apparently ruled out carpal tunnel syndrome, but he wasn't much help beyond that. He gave me some straps that I slept in and wore arou…

If you have carpal tunnel, lifting weights can make things worse. It puts more stress in the narrow canal that your tendons go through, which cause the pain.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#215

Post by casion » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #205

casion wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There must be some miscommunication here. Gabapentin and Pregabalin are both used successfully for SFN and are first line treatment options. For severe cases, things like mexiletine can be used if you're willing to tolerate the side effects. Sodium-channel blockers like lidocaine + epinephrine can be used for localized treatment during sever pain. It's a fuzzy distinction because SFN is almost always a sign of an und…

Apologies, I meant "treatment" to mean "treat the condition", as in "make it better". Gabapentin, Pregabalin etc can help with the pain, but not the underlying cause. I haven't come across mexiletine before, but after a quick glance if looks like it's unlikely to be prescribed in the UK (I'm in the UK :). I must have tried dozens of medications over the past 4 years or so, but it seems I have some dodgy genetics, as…

I'm not sure if it will help, but I also felt rather poorly on Gabapentin (and Pregabalin).

I did two rounds of it and decided it was a terrible medication. I could barely even walk (I distinctly remember my poor father helping me down some stairs at ikea the first day I took it, unknowing what was to come).

Eventually I found a rheumatologist that understood. She started me on 100mg Gabapentin in the evenings. I did that for 2 weeks. I slept better, which was nice.

Then I added 100mg in the morning with a dose of magnesium citrate. Gabapentin is absorbed in the lower GI tract and magnesium citrate increases intestinal motility. This effectively makes the 100mg dose therapeutically equivalent to 20-50mg.

After a week, I'd have my morning dose normally.

Then 200mg in the evening after a week. Then 200mg in the morning. Then 400mg in the evening... Etc...

It took me a little over 3 months to get to the appropriate therapeutic dose, but I managed without experiencing any unpleasant side effects. I then switched to Pregabalin without any titration, and it's more effective for me.

I spent at least 5 years rolling back and forth between pregab/gaba before a sensible doctor walked me through a tolerable process. Hopefully this might help you communicate a similar system with your healthcare professional so you can try it again.

It's been totally worth the effort.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#216

Post by casion » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:39 PM UTC

tofof wrote: post #128

gwbas1c wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you will absolutely not be left without any pain meds Based on what I've learned, over-the-counter pain medication, such as Tylenol and Advil, is most effective for pain. It's also cheaper, doesn't require a prescription, and isn't addictive. You should consult with a doctor for high doses and long-term usage. When I had opioids after surgery, I could not concentrate. Specifically, I could not concentrate to re…

It's unsurprising that Advil (Ibuprofen), an anti-inflammatory painkiller, would work better for pain than Valium (Diazepam), an anti-anxiety medication with no pain relieving properties of any kind, and certainly not an opiate. Perhaps you meant Vicodin? In either case you undercut your position to give advice about choice of painkiller.

Parent may have mistyped, but benzodiazepines are very frequently utilized for treating Firbomyalgia pain. (at least in the US)

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#217

Post by Stratoscope » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:40 PM UTC

jakub_g wrote: post #190

Stratoscope wrote: post #105

This won't help anyone who has lost the use of their hands, but I have some advice for touch typists who use a standard keyboard like a laptop or typical desktop keyboard: don't bend your wrists. Of course most people know about the ergonomic advice to have your keyboard at the right height so your wrists don't have to bend up or down. But I often see people typing with a horizontal bend in their wrists so that their…

As others mentioned, ergonomic keyboard helps with this. I'm using Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic wireless keyboard (haven't tried Kinesis) which is IMO a good compromise between price, quality and size. One thing to be aware of though is that for security, the USB dongle is paired with the keyboard at the factory via a unique encryption key, so if the dongle breaks, you can basically throw the keyboard to the bin (contr…

Great tips, thanks! I recommend your "secondary mouse hand" trick in particular for right-handers who use desktop keyboards with the typical cursor keys on the right. I did this before I switched to ThinkPads, and it was great being able to seamlessly work the mouse with my left hand and the cursor keys with my right. Putting the mouse on the left also made a much shorter reach to get to it.

For Windows users with desktop keyboards that have numeric pads, I also suggest turning on the Mouse Keys feature. One thing I always found most stressful with a mouse was dragging with the button down and trying to make precise movements. I felt like I was cramping my hand every time I did that. Mouse Keys makes precise mouse movements easy:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/14204/windows-7-use...

Or on a laptop keyboard - particularly on a ThinkPad - use my JKLmouse program (an AutoHotkey script) that does much the same thing without a number pad. Whenever you hold any mouse (TrackPoint) button or the Caps Lock key down, various keyboard keys turn into mouse movement keys. It works on any keyboard but is especially nice on a ThinkPad where you can press a TrackPoint button, use the TrackPoint to get the cursor about where you want it, and then - with your hand still on the home row! - move pixel by pixel with the keyboard.

https://www.jklmouse.com/

I don't know of macOS or Linux equivalents for these, but would be interested in hearing about them if anyone is familiar.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#218

Post by carlmr » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC

pknopf wrote: post #211

bspammer wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 23 and have been using computers very heavily for the last 10 or so years - probably an average of 6 hours a day. During a particularly intensive day of typing last week I started getting pain in my right hand. I had to resort to hunt-and-peck index finger typing to get the feature I was working on finished. I'm horrified, it feels like I'm way too early in my career for something like this to happen, but I guess…

I learned to use mouse with my other hand. I was literally forced to one day, out of pain. Took me 2 days to feel normal with it. Nowadays, I juggle back and forth, depending on comfort.

I'm pretty good at that too, but mostly due to temporary climbing injuries.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#219

Post by Stratoscope » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

Arathorn wrote: post #212

Stratoscope wrote: post #105

This won't help anyone who has lost the use of their hands, but I have some advice for touch typists who use a standard keyboard like a laptop or typical desktop keyboard: don't bend your wrists. Of course most people know about the ergonomic advice to have your keyboard at the right height so your wrists don't have to bend up or down. But I often see people typing with a horizontal bend in their wrists so that their…

Anecdata alert: For what it's worth, I am relatively sure that the key factor in developing (and then avoiding) RSI for me at least is sitting posture. This may in turn be impacting the wrist posture when typing, but I've systematically realised that when starting to feel RSI that it's coincident with having started slouching or hunching at my desk (or using a different physical layout). Fixing that (and taking it ea…

Yes, posture and stress tension are huge! I don't work sitting down any more, and I think that has helped me a lot. But one thing I've made a point to avoid is standing still in one spot like John Carmack giving a talk.

Instead, I'm always moving when I stand at my desk. At home I have a FluidStance Level:

https://fluidstance.com

They are expensive, but mine has already paid for itself in terms of feeling better and more alert and hopefully longer life. :-) I don't have one at the office yet, but in the meantime when I stand at my desk I'm always moving around - swaying from side to side, climbing an invisible ladder (raising each foot back and forth), etc.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#220

Post by eee391 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

I had severe rsi on my forearms from too much coding with bad posture and no exercise. It got me for more than 3 years. It was a muscular issue the nerves were fine. I lost endurance in the forearm / wrist muscles and it didn't seem to come back no matter what I tried. Doctors therapy exercise etc. It was a nightmare. I went on a leave. I barely kept my job. At times I couldn't use the computer for more than 10 minutes before my Muscles were exhausted. Gradually but very slowly things improved. Today I can manage it pretty well. My recovery started with reading this book and I recommend it to anyone going through chronic pain:

The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain