What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type? • Hacker News Board

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#151

Post by allannienhuis » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:21 PM UTC

tcoff91 wrote: post #28

csallen wrote: post #25

This story resonates. A few years back I was dealing with mild pain while coding. I stupidly ignored it for months as it got significantly worse, to the point where it became impossible to type for extended periods. I tried lots of things. My doctor did a nerve conduction study, which apparently ruled out carpal tunnel syndrome, but he wasn't much help beyond that. He gave me some straps that I slept in and wore arou…

Try doing some rock climbing either outdoors or at the rock gym. Fixed my hand pain real quick.

Learning to play the guitar is a surprisingly good way to increase your hand strength - mostly the left/off hand, but not exclusively. Learning to play the piano has similar hand strength benefits. Obviously overdoing it in both cases can lead to it's own RSI issues. But just getting past the beginner stage really adds a lot of strength & dexterity.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#152

Post by 1e-9 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

Cpoll wrote: post #129

1e-9 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative grip exercise that can be done anywhere and avoids the injury risk of climbing, is to alternately make a fist and then open your hands as far as possible while spreading your fingers apart. Start slowly and gradually increase the speed and repetitions. Be sure to have at least one rest day between sessions (I actually think two rest days is better). After a couple of weeks, you should be able to do it…

Do you know what this exercise is called?

The closest thing I've found is called a "Fist Flex," so I just call this a "Rapid Fist Flex." I adapted it from a rehab exercise I was given after an injury, which instructed you to only do 10 to 20 slow repetitions. Once I was largely recovered from the injury, I found that doing 20 repetitions at a slow rate did little for me, so I experimented and determined that just increasing the rate and exercising to fatigue allowed me to continue to strengthen as effectively as any weight-bearing exercise I had done. I think of it as using acceleration/deceleration to generate force rather than using weights, which is similar to what sprinting does for the legs, core, and arms. Take a look at a 100m sprinter. Rapid movement is very effective at strengthening and it works your full range of motion. If you want some extra resistance, just put your hands underwater in the bathtub when doing it.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#153

Post by einpoklum » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

arkades wrote: post #34

m12k wrote: post #10

That story of how the doctors just dismissed her pain as delusion is terrifying. Doctors are supposed to be people of science, but one of the very fundamentals of science is to acknowledge that you don't know everything, that your current knowledge is just a theory that can be improved upon. I find there's a tendency among doctors to think they know every possible disease, and if someone comes along with one that doe…

You really don’t know how many hypochondriacs we get. And general anxiety disorder with a focus on healthcare. And totally reasonable people who start attaching every last twinge and twitch to their (real) core symptom, and want an answer that encompasses all of them. And these people seek care. A lot. Literally orders of magnitude more than ordinary people do. You have your one story of (x). I can tell you about a s…

You are required - ethically, perhaps even legally - to sort out the hypochondriacs/nuts from the bona-fide-condition cases using sound diagnostics. Now, for the person who complains about a couple of days or sore throat or a headache, you might dismiss them with something mild and symptomatic - but the person who tells you "I've had excruciating pain in my wrists for a year and I can't type", with the medical history to prove it, is definitely someone you should put through a battery of tests.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#154

Post by escapologybb » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

arendtio wrote: post #17

Reminds me of Stuart Turner and his talks: - https://robotsandcake.org/about/humans/stuart-turner.html - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjnBpiirfr7LL-mUk9uSpZw

Hey, that reminds me of me as well!

I still use DragonDictate for Mac to do all of my dictation, whether that is writing Hacker News comments, writing emails, having meaningful discussions (okay arguing) on Twitter or writing code.

One of the most useful features of DragonDictate for Mac is the Auto-text feature where you can use single words to trigger larger blocks of text, this is great for filling in empty functions et cetera. There are also some really great Sublime Text plug-ins like auto complete all which makes writing code so much easier.

I mainly like to work in Python, but also have a huge library of Bash scripts to iron out lots of the little wrinkles that pop up when you cannot use your hands and you're trying to use a computer efficiently. Honestly there are so many of them that I have been using so long that I am not sure I could enumerate them off the top of my head!

I have played with Talon a little bit but never really got to grips with it, I don't know whether that's because I'm too used to using my method or that Talon was a little overcomplicated. I am however so pleased that there is work being done in this area, I am really happy that developers and industry are starting to understand that Accessibility does not just mean "works with a screen reader" as it has in the past.

One of the main problems and trying to solve at the moment is how to write mathematical notation using the tools I have at hand, which is a Mac, Sublime Text and DragonDictate for Mac.

Anyway, I am a coder who cannot type, AMA!

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#155

Post by Benjamin_Dobell » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

allannienhuis wrote: post #151

tcoff91 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try doing some rock climbing either outdoors or at the rock gym. Fixed my hand pain real quick.

Learning to play the guitar is a surprisingly good way to increase your hand strength - mostly the left/off hand, but not exclusively. Learning to play the piano has similar hand strength benefits. Obviously overdoing it in both cases can lead to it's own RSI issues. But just getting past the beginner stage really adds a lot of strength & dexterity.

I've certainly read this before, however are there any studies that back this up?

I played guitar before I got RSI. Now, I can't play for more than a few minutes at a time without ending up in pain - despite my RSI being under control for work purposes.

Actually, there's nothing quite like playing guitar in terms of causing me pain well after finishing the activity. Certain things like lifting heavy furniture, or using a screwdriver cause pain quicker but it also goes away pretty fast. 5 minutes of guitar will result in pain and weakness until the next day. Granted, it's not an enormous amount of pain, but it's certainly enough to be annoying. It sucks, because despite not being very good, I've always enjoyed playing guitar.

I should add that I also certainly never overdid playing either; I've never played a live show in my life and have never taken it too seriously, was just a hobby.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#156

Post by einpoklum » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

armada651 wrote: post #35

tarsinge wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychosomatic diseases are a real thing though. You can have real physical symptoms. Last year my muscles started to « shake », with lots of skipped heartbeats (extrasystoles). After all the checks the doctors said the classic « it’s stress ». Well then I took a real break and embarked on multi month road trip on another continent. The symptoms disappeared nearly overnight. I think I experienced a burnout but it mani…

Regardless of whether you think the advice from the GP is sound or not, the best way to get a doctor to listen to you is to listen to (and follow) their advice first. Cursing at them out of frustration only makes your situation worse.

> the best way to get a doctor to listen to you is to listen to (and follow) their advice first.

No. Because sometimes their advice is "nothing can be done, you'll need to manage." Or - "Wait for a few more weeks and if it doesn't go away, we'll rethink things".

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#157

Post by hilyen » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

mwiethoff wrote: post #115

I developed an RSI a few years ago, and I had to leave my job. It was devastating to lose both my career and my passion to an injury. Since then, I've been working with a friend on a new voice coding app called Serenade [1] that aims to enable anyone to program by voice. With Serenade, you can speak natural English voice commands like "delete second function" and "add class person". Not only can this be faster than t…

Definitely interested. I’ll check it out.

Same boat, software engineer, my index and middle finger main knuckles on both hands inflame from the slightest use even after years of therapy, doctors visits, etc. Also tendinitis in both elbows/arms.

Note to those who are pushing off fixing your ergonomics, don’t. If you feel pain, numbing, tingling; do not ignore it. Listen to your body, don’t be like me.

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#158

Post by YazIAm » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC

A few tips from my RSI journey. I had developed a severe case ~8ish years ago. It took 1.5 years before I could code full-time again. Was a very painful period. It's still difficult for me to code beyond 40 hours a week, which makes side projects difficult.

The most effective techniques for my (partial) recovery, and for keeping the severe pain at bay for the last 6 years:

- I never ever use standard computer mice, and try to avoid the trackpad as much as possible. For me, they were worse than the keyboard. Instead, I've been using a Wacom tablet (with pen) for years. I've gotten several colleagues who were experiencing pain to use pen tablets as well, with uniformly good results.

- Further reducing the need to leave the keyboard by switching to vim and also using spectacle for window management. I found vim-adventures.com very effective for learning vim - not affiliated with the project in anyway, just a very happy user.

- Always coding with my elbow a touch over 90 degrees. I find that placing the keyboard on my lap is the most comfortable (although that maybe dependant on body proportions). In my opinion most desks are way to high for comfortable ergonomics, my lap happens to be everywhere I am, so that's convenient.

- Plenty of exercise developing back muscles (which I had completely neglected prior)

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#159

Post by xtagon » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:30 PM UTC

mwiethoff wrote: post #115

I developed an RSI a few years ago, and I had to leave my job. It was devastating to lose both my career and my passion to an injury. Since then, I've been working with a friend on a new voice coding app called Serenade [1] that aims to enable anyone to program by voice. With Serenade, you can speak natural English voice commands like "delete second function" and "add class person". Not only can this be faster than t…

That's incredible! Does it work with any programming language?

Re: What Does a Coder Do If They Can't Type?

#160

Post by vhakulinen » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

lstamour wrote: post #139

vhakulinen wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have my wrists straight when I type, but I used to have a problem with left hand's control key; every time I needed to press ctrl+ my writs bend and it started to cause pain. Then, one day I decided to map my capslock key to act as ctrl (found online that this was a thing) and once I learned to use it, all the pain was basically gone. It maybe took a week or so of learning to get used to it.

+1 on keyboard remapping, though I’ve never gotten used to it permanently myself. In Colemak, Caps Lock was originally changed to backspace, so for users who don’t need to hit Ctrl as often, that’s also an option. I suspect the only way I’ll remember the remapping permanently is to disable the original/bad mapping, such that every time I do the old way, I remind myself it doesn’t work that way and hit the new key ins…

I've heard some to map esc to capslock too, or even ctrl _and_ esc (tap for one, hold for the other). I don't think I would have learned the new mapping if it weren't for the pain.