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FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

thehill.com

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Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#331

Post by DuskStar »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #304
meroes wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of the recently-publicized shootings in the US have occurred in California, which has some of the most strict firearms laws in the nation. How many of those had an out of state purchase like the most recent one though (Gilroy)?

It can be also out of country purchases: go to Canada, buy the gun, come back. The situation is not different in any way, especially because if you buy the gun in Vermont or Canada you are still not allowed to get it in California. Do you want to regulate guns in Canada?

And that's assuming that people don't just manufacture the guns themselves - automatic rifles with box magazines are literally 1940s tech, and while making a good one takes a ton of expertise, something able to kill a bunch of unarmed civilians is a lot easier. For that matter, how long will it be before home CNC mills will be able to make modern(ish) weapons?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#332

Post by AdrianB1 »

DuskStar wrote: post #331
AdrianB1 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be also out of country purchases: go to Canada, buy the gun, come back. The situation is not different in any way, especially because if you buy the gun in Vermont or Canada you are still not allowed to get it in California. Do you want to regulate guns in Canada?

And that's assuming that people don't just manufacture the guns themselves - automatic rifles with box magazines are literally 1940s tech, and while making a good one takes a ton of expertise, something able to kill a bunch of unarmed civilians is a lot easier. For that matter, how long will it be before home CNC mills will be able to make modern(ish) weapons?

Don't ever bother with an automatic rifle, a semi-auto is much more precise and easier to build.

That horse has already left the barn.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#333

Post by DuskStar »

wyldfire wrote: post #237
whatthesmack wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trouble with those policies (aside from 100-round barrels... I have no idea what that means, and I don’t think you do either) is that they’re often-mentioned, but people forget to ask the question, “Have these policies actually improved anything where they’ve been implemented?” Many of the recently-publicized shootings in the US have occurred in California, which has some of the most strict firearms laws in the n…

> Many of the recently-publicized shootings in the US have occurred in California, which has some of the most strict firearms laws in the nation If California's laws prevented some but not all of the shootings then it still should be considered a success. > Why guns are the hot-button issue and heart disease isn’t plastered over the media 24/7? I I don't think this is honest. If your mother and father died in a mass…

> If California's laws prevented some but not all of the shootings then it still should be considered a success.

If California's laws decreased the frequency of shootings, we'd expect California's shootings per year per person to be better than Texas.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#334

Post by wool_gather »

bigwavedave wrote: post #310
wool_gather wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why guns are the hot-button issue and heart disease isn’t plastered over the media 24/7? Heart disease does get public attention -- check your breakfast cereal, as a banal example: odds are it touts its "heart healthiness" -- and gun control isn't 24/7 either. But there are a few components to consider. One is that gun deaths are traumatic beyond the impact of just the death. The murder of someone you love, where a…

> "Gun deaths are traumatic beyond the impact of just the death." I don't think you've ever lost a loved one. If you had, you'd understand that what you're saying is completely bonkers and is extremely insulting to those of us who have lost loved ones.

I have lost multiple close family members in the last decade, including a sudden and unexpected death of a relatively young person.

The ad hominem adds nothing to the discussion.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#335

Post by DuskStar »

CydeWeys wrote: post #166
EForEndeavour wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume a ban would take effect "suddenly"? As you rightly point out, it would make no sense to apply a gun ban instantly, tricking millions of Americans into technically becoming felons.

I think the point is that millions of Americans feel so strongly about gun ownership that they would rather be felons (and 'molon labe' their guns) than give them up.

I mean, if millions of New Zealanders (and Germans, and Brits, and...) feel like that, why would we expect the US to be any different? (compliance rates for previous gun confiscation efforts overseas have been laughable - like, "I don't think there's been one with over 50% compliance" tier laughable)

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#336

Post by nickynickell »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #307
coldtea wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, 20 round barrels can just kill like 5-6 people, 10-12 if you're lucky and it's a dense crowd, so they're ok /s

There is nothing like a 20 round barrel, the most barrels in an gun is around 7 or 8 on platform mounts and the weight it in thousands of pounds. A barrel is not a unit of measure for rounds. Learn something about what you want to discuss if you want to have any valid point, being clueless and talking is not a good idea.

They were joking, and you're being needlessly hostile. Plus you're wrong on multiple counts. Most of the counter examples are historic, but still.

Yes, barrel is not a unit of rounds, but there are situations where it would be appropriate. Superimposed loading is where multiple rounds are loaded in the same barrel and are fired sequentially. This is a very old idea, but for a modern take on it look up (the now defunct) Metal Storm. Terrifying stuff.

There have been guns with many more barrels than 7 or 8. Volley guns have been made with anywhere from just a few to nearly a hundred barrels. They weren't always big platform mounted monstrosities either. A famous example would be the nock gun: a 7 barrel, shoulder-fired flintlock.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#337

Post by 13415 »

sokoloff wrote: post #252
13415 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, I was wrong. The definitions clearly differentiate between number of people shot and number of people killed, and the Wikipedia article is explicit about the sources used and the definitions used by the sources. There is nothing wrong with the list, but there seems to be some metalinguistic dispute about what's the best definition of "mass shooting." This dispute is merely about words.

While most forum disputes are about words, I think that @frittig makes a valid point in questioning whether the lawful shooting of active criminal home invaders ought to be considered a "mass shooting" just because there happened to be a lot of home invaders. So, yes it's about words in part, but also about concepts. For my part, all else being equal, for every N criminal home invaders, the optimal number of home inv…

You are apparently looking at this from the perspective of the victims only, but the burglars were also armed and shooting. They have been arrested for it: "... charges including first-degree burglary, conspiracy, shooting with intent to kill and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony" [Oklahoma News 4, emphasis mine]

> good mass shootings in with other bad mass shootings

I'd certainly say that's better methodology than trying to define "good" and "bad" mass shootings and then only list the "bad" ones. (I don't quite see what's good about this shooting anyway, but I suppose you mean that the crime was stopped.)

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#338

Post by DuskStar »

jarfil wrote: post #80
DiabloD3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does seem to be that is the position. There are a lot of backwards nutjobs in the government right now, blaming other backwards nutjobs, while the rest of us sane people are trying to duct tape society together. Guns don't kill people, encryption doesn't kill people, backwards nutjobs kill people. Politics in America, currently, can entirely be summed up as the Spiderman pointing at Spiderman meme.

More like guns either kill people or look pretty on a wall; encryption not only can't kill people, it also prevents people from stealing. Even a nutjob armed with the latest encryption, still needs a gun to kill people.

> or look pretty on a wall

or defend their owners, or hunt, or...

If I had to bet, I'd say at least 25% of US guns have been used within the past year, and 99.9% of those will not have been used to kill others.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#339

Post by bo1024 »

baddox wrote: post #228
bo1024 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Authorities want every house in America to be remodeled to include a second front door with a special government lock. They promise to only give police departments, contractors, and/or federal employees access to the single master key that can be instantly and easily copied and shared over the internet and opens every single house and business in America. Even if we trusted the government with this power, how could…

I think most Americans know that the government can quite easily enter anyone’s home if they want to.

I didn't do a good enough job with the analogy. The main problem I want to illustrate is that if the key falls into the wrong hands (which is extremely easy to do), then anyone else can easily enter anyone's home.

There are two main issues: government abusing its power, and weakening security of everybody. I meant to focus more on the second.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#340

Post by DuskStar »

01100011 wrote: post #63

We (HN commenters) all know that the demonization of encryption is bullshit. What we need to do is to figure out how to communicate that effectively to the public.

And gun owners know the demonization of guns is bullshit. Perhaps we could find common cause against government - mandated disarmament instead of trying to shift the blame elsewhere?
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