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Porsche Taycan [video]

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Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re also stressing repeatability of 0-60 acceleration where Tesla reports 0-60 on nearly full batteries. The Model3 performance consistency is better than the model s because they improved the cooling system but performance drops off quickly after a couple of runs. I expect the Porsche to deliver consistent performance because that’s what they’ve been talking about for the last 3 years. Specifically, the referred…

Also Porsche are fairly well known for being very conservative with their published 0-60/62 numbers.

The reason for this is Porsche's 0-60/0-62 times are intended to be reproduced in less than ideal conditions, and with great repeat-ability

For example, 105F/40C air temps on a concrete surface (low-friction) with some amount of sand. Or 15F/-10C on a concrete surface.

And you can do that back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back... for an hour (with say 50 standing starts), non-stop. You'll see little variation in the result, and the car won't throw up its hands and say the party's over until it takes a rest.

That's a a big difference from the Model S which doesn't allow launch control unless the batteries are in a specific temperature window (which is about 20C wide), in which it must prep (warm up or cool down) before it's ready go, or to go again. A prep that is usually measured in minutes, unless you happened to already be in that window.

The Model 3s thermal management and cooling system is a huge step up from the Model S and Y, but Porsche (especially as you step further up a model line into the high end stuff) is probably THE brand known to go out on a track and stay out there longer than nearly any other brand before it needs to come in and cool down a bit. They're rather notorious for still under engineering and overbuilding their powertrains and braking systems, and a lot of tech trickling down from their motorsport efforts.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#82
post #14
post #9

Glad to see competition finally coming around. That said I still wonder if they're holding back here to not cannibalize other lines. The 0-60 in the 3.5s range is over a full second off Tesla's best and for a performance brand seems like you want to be more in line with Tesla.

My impression is that German car brands usually do not focus as much on 0-60 accelaration as much as Tesla does. Especially for a Porsche, it's more about handling than drag race performance.

The 0-60 and full torque marketing is what Tesla needed to make electric cars cool. I'm glad we can talk about more boring things like consistency now.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oops, you've accidentally presented hard facts criticizing Tesla in a tech forum and have been summarily downvoted! Tesla's ludicrous launch is a party trick. It produces a number to prop up a marketing blurb. "Fastest production car ever!" Tesla has been doing the same sort of thing with "Safest car ever!" to the point that NHTSA recently sent Tesla a cease-and-desist letter over misleading statements about the Mode…

100% agree with you, I feel like I get treated like a luddite when I tell people I’m not really a huge fan of Tesla. I’ve been looking forward to the Germans entering the electric car market for real. Should force everyone to step up their game.

I am highly excited for the VW "ID Buzz" eBus.

https://thedriven.io/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/VWmediaIDbuz...

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of reductionism can be used for anything. To get good handling, you just need good traction and a low center of gravity. To get good top speeds you just need good top speed. To go to Mars you just need a big rocket. Traditionally obtaining good acceleration has been incredibly difficult. Larger engines yield a heavier vehicle in a vicious cycle. Makers like Lamborghini would reduce their cars to just shells…

Handling is much more complex than traction and low center of gravity. The car needs to be predictable at different speeds, under braking and a mix of a lot of other conditions. That's a much more difficult thing to get right than going straight.

It also helps to not weigh 4000 pounds.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#86
post #9

Glad to see competition finally coming around. That said I still wonder if they're holding back here to not cannibalize other lines. The 0-60 in the 3.5s range is over a full second off Tesla's best and for a performance brand seems like you want to be more in line with Tesla.

They’re also stressing repeatability of 0-60 acceleration where Tesla reports 0-60 on nearly full batteries. The Model3 performance consistency is better than the model s because they improved the cooling system but performance drops off quickly after a couple of runs. I expect the Porsche to deliver consistent performance because that’s what they’ve been talking about for the last 3 years. Specifically, the referred…

Yeah, but I usually don't want to accelerate 10 times, but only once in a while (e. g. after a red light). It is totally useless, but great fun in Tesla.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#87
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0-60 is pretty useless and easy to achieve. Good handling is much harder to achieve and requires more development. I would expect a Porsche to handle much better than tesla.

Should try driving a Tesla, they handle amazingly.

Not better than Porsche. I own both and Tesla suspension is pure garbage compared to the Porsche. Tesla 3 has insane body roll for a vehicle with the majority of weight below the center the wheels.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re also stressing repeatability of 0-60 acceleration where Tesla reports 0-60 on nearly full batteries. The Model3 performance consistency is better than the model s because they improved the cooling system but performance drops off quickly after a couple of runs. I expect the Porsche to deliver consistent performance because that’s what they’ve been talking about for the last 3 years. Specifically, the referred…

Yeah, but I usually don't want to accelerate 10 times, but only once in a while (e. g. after a red light). It is totally useless, but great fun in Tesla.

Yes, true, but it does cheapen the experience when you learn don't really have a high performance car after the first couple of laps.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#89
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish everyone was competing on range rather than acceleration. Range is the number one reason I went with a LR model 3. I don't give a rats ass about how fast it gets to speed. However it is nice to see an EV with range at least in Tesla territory, granted it still is 2012 territory. I posted before, no premium brand EV should sell anything under 300 miles EPA; I use EPA as it is the one returning the lowest…

I really wish everyone was competing on efficiency. Most journeys require nowhere near the range capabilities of current EVs, instead carrying around excess weight when not required. Similarly on the acceleration side, other than showing off, why do we need cars that can do 0-60 in 2-3 seconds? Those kinds of g-forces are certainly not pleasant for passengers.

Acceleration is super fun and range is essential for a general purpose car. It sucks to have to plan your trip around super charger proximity.

Re: Porsche Taycan [video]

#90
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0-60 is pretty useless and easy to achieve. Good handling is much harder to achieve and requires more development. I would expect a Porsche to handle much better than tesla.

Should try driving a Tesla, they handle amazingly.

I could not disagree more. I test drove a Model S years ago and was genuinely shocked how horribly it handled. Weight is the enemy of handling, and those cars drive like boats if you ever turn the steering wheel.

However I have heard the Model 3 handles great, but still not quite as good as cars in the same price bracket. I'd take an M2 Competition over a Model 3 Performance based on what I've heard, but obviously until I drive both that's just conjecture.

What I can say for a fact - I genuinely preferred how my 94 Camry handled compared to the Model S. And I fucking hated that Camry.

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