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When Smart People are Bad Employees

blogs.forbes.com

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Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#31

Post by praptak »

michaels0620 wrote: post #13

I've been in the company of really smart (and likable!) Heretics and they tend to go out not with a bang but with a whimper. It's sad to watch. They may be even be right but their persistent negativity and challenging of the status quo (even in minor matters) ends up wearing people down. Then eyes start rolling when they talk and their rants are met with sighs rather than attention or acknowledgment. Then they start…

"Then they start getting left out of meetings and email conversations as it is easier to get things done without them no matter how smart they are."

At this point it's the management fault for not doing (having done) something about it. Firing the person, fixing the status quo or maybe empowering them to fix it.

And yeah, I'm aware I might now sound like the Heretic themselves :)

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#32

Post by jonburs »

Evgeny wrote: post #25

As a side note: why is the he/she used this way? He is disempowered - She feels etc. Wouldn't it be correct to use "she" everywhere?

I imagine it's a poor attempt to be gender-neutral. Alternating genders between successive examples might have worked better. (The Silence of the Lambs alternative formulation, probably not.)

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#33

Post by rdl »

flashgordon wrote: post #11
keeptrying wrote: post #9

All said and done you need your "bad" employee more than they need you. Brilliance usually comes at a cost. If you were really a good leader you would have been able to get Rodger some help with his drug problem. And if it had worked he would have repayed you with some amazing work. Stop fucking complaining about "bad" employees who make you more money than everyone else on the team. Your job IS to deal with them - s…

Is it really black and white as that? Would you still hire a genius if his actions were unethical on purpose just on the off streak that he might (or even has) produced 10x the wealth/value/code/output as an average engineer?

It really depends on the person, his flaws, and the role.

Roger the Coke Fiend actually seems like he'd be manageable as a part-timer: keep him on the bench, and if you have a cool 72h burst for him to do, especially if the consequences of his failure are not bad in any case. A dull but productive and reliable guy makes a great accountant. It's all about the specifics.

For someone unethical, I'd be reluctant to do most business, but might be willing to do arms length product purchases. For instance, there are musicians who produce music I sometimes enjoy but wouldn't trust at all.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#34

Post by _delirium »

michaels0620 wrote: post #13

I've been in the company of really smart (and likable!) Heretics and they tend to go out not with a bang but with a whimper. It's sad to watch. They may be even be right but their persistent negativity and challenging of the status quo (even in minor matters) ends up wearing people down. Then eyes start rolling when they talk and their rants are met with sighs rather than attention or acknowledgment. Then they start…

Maybe I hang out with too many cynical people, but the Heretics I've run into have usually been pretty popular with coworkers, at least if the Heretic is also a reasonably intelligent and sociable person (rather than the muttering-darkly-in-the-corner variety). Even a decent number of people who don't themselves have much interest attacking their boss / stupid corporate policies / etc., sometimes like to watch on the sidelines while someone else does, at least if they can avoid entanglement in the drama. But I guess most people I know are sort of default-cynical about organizations, policies, and management, so there's a default-positivity about someone who's spending their time railing against it, even if you think their energies are misguided/futile.

Though I guess it does get more problematic if they start attacking their coworkers as sheep/sellouts/etc. The popularity is easier to maintain if they stick to attacking management/bosses/policies and treat their coworkers as being on the same side.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#35

Post by alnayyir »

mkelly wrote: post #30
naner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes across inappropriate and immature. Regardless of the content, a VC in his mid forties shouldn't be quoting rap lyrics at the head of business articles. I can't imagine having a conversation with this guy about business where he casually offers a quote about douchebags and assholes from Kanye West to explain something. Kanye belongs on your iPod, not in your Forbes opinion piece.

What about rap music do you have an objection to? (I ask, very specifically, because you said "rap lyrics" and not, e.g., "music with immature lyrics".)

The latter is pointlessly verbose. This is discussion, not ad copy that has to be PC.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#36

Post by rdl »

naner wrote: post #27
naner wrote: post #6

I'm supposed to take this guy seriously with a lead-in like that? I can't wait for his article on common misconceptions of social propriety among the technically proficient.

So I worded this poorly but I was disapproving of his Kanye quote, not the lead-in from the blog owner.

Ben Horowitz's "ben's blog" always leads off with a thematic rap lyric; it works pretty well in some cases, but fails in others. I don't think this was the strongest one.

Overall, I think it's a decent attempt at having a hook for otherwise somewhat dry (maybe, but not really) blog posts. He is obviously going for contrast.

For instance, the KRS-One quote worked well on http://bhorowitz.com/2010/05/14/why-startups-should-train-th...

The Who for this was obvious (and the theme too): http://bhorowitz.com/2010/11/15/meet-the-new-enterprise-cust...

I'd respect him more if he used the obvious Biggie quotes, though.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#37

Post by roel_v »

mkelly wrote: post #30
naner wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes across inappropriate and immature. Regardless of the content, a VC in his mid forties shouldn't be quoting rap lyrics at the head of business articles. I can't imagine having a conversation with this guy about business where he casually offers a quote about douchebags and assholes from Kanye West to explain something. Kanye belongs on your iPod, not in your Forbes opinion piece.

What about rap music do you have an objection to? (I ask, very specifically, because you said "rap lyrics" and not, e.g., "music with immature lyrics".)

Seriously? You're turning this into a juvenile 'my music is better than yours' argument? This is no reason to assume the OP has a specific beef with rap, just that it doesn't belong in a business article, which is true. Reading comprehension also means deriving assumptions from the context and looking for interpretations of what is said that fit within that context.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#38

Post by minddog »

Aside from a strange lead-in, there is a larger picture about identifying the dynamic of a team and how to build it. We should prevent these situations by identifying red flags in the hiring process early on. Sometimes that isn't good enough, but to his point, we shouldn't make that same mistake twice. Never heard of this, but it could be a good practice to do a post-mortem in the hiring process after an acidic resource is gone. I'm sure this problem runs rampant in all industries, where they have a much less tolerance.

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#39

Post by qq66 »

kenjackson wrote: post #19
keeptrying wrote: post #9

All said and done you need your "bad" employee more than they need you. Brilliance usually comes at a cost. If you were really a good leader you would have been able to get Rodger some help with his drug problem. And if it had worked he would have repayed you with some amazing work. Stop fucking complaining about "bad" employees who make you more money than everyone else on the team. Your job IS to deal with them - s…

Your job IS to deal with them Your job isn't to deal with them, its to extract from them. Once you can no longer extract value beyond their cost, "poof, be gone". Once T.O. isn't a great player, who's gonna put up with him? No one. With that said, when you look at most of the greats, think Gretsky, Jordan, Tiger, Magic, Bird, etc... they are the model player. The only major exception I can think of is Bonds, and with…

Even without his later 'roid years Bonds is statistically by far the best batter of his generation and one of the top 5 of all time (Probably #2, just a sliver behind Williams).

Re: When Smart People are Bad Employees

#40

Post by lwhi »

naner wrote: post #26
BigZaphod wrote: post #20

This is probably OT and maybe even rude... but that lead-in with the Kanye lyrics is just strange. My reading of the lyrics snippet (and I'm certainly no expert in these things) suggests that the character is telling a girl to run away from him because he knows he's a dick. Specifically, he's a dick that's especially good at criticism and spreading negativity and of the list of targets, one group happens to be people…

It comes across inappropriate and immature. Regardless of the content, a VC in his mid forties shouldn't be quoting rap lyrics at the head of business articles. I can't imagine having a conversation with this guy about business where he casually offers a quote about douchebags and assholes from Kanye West to explain something. Kanye belongs on your iPod, not in your Forbes opinion piece.

Oh please. Do you really believe this?

The quote is directly relevant to the piece. It fits completely within the context of the article (personality vs. success).

I don't think something should be disallowed, just because it falls out of your narrow sphere of what's directly permissible.

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