I don't think suicidal people much care about the legal or moral judgements of others. Unless you're talking about removing all means of suicide and forcefully keeping people alive.
> I don't think suicidal people much care about the legal or moral judgements of others. This is untrue. From what we can tell suicidal people care deeply about what other people think.
Morally and legally? From what we can tell suicidal individuals often care "what other people think" in the vein of social acceptability. He ran with a crowd that flaunted a disregard for legality and moral compunction. In this case, I would not believe his suicidal attempt (not attempts) had any consideration for moral or legal ramification.
How does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.
Right. It is proof of corruption and incompetency. He was in the custody of the government. This damages trust in the system, but also the ideology of it, as people already express that this outcome is good. Those people don't care about evidence, witnesses, arguments, and now he can't directly name co-conspirators and accomplices.
Someone has bought their idea of justice with death.
This sounds too convenient. If this was a suicide and not anything more sinister, this is gross negligence by prison authorities. It was their solemn duty and responsibility to see this person face trial. This will only inflame conspiracy theory minded people to believe there is a vast conspiracy by the powerful to protect themselves. This is depressing. I’m yet hopeful evidence will be used to bring guilty parties t…
I am not a lawyer, but @klasfeldreports on twitter quotes an unnamed legal source who says: "Background: An important note after Epstein's death: no one else will have standing to challenge the search warrant on his house. Everything will be admissible against any other defendant without possibility of a motion to suppress." So maybe this will be a net good for justice?
Maybe. One hopes this can be salvaged. I guess we may never know who was behind it all pulling the levers. Mr Epstein can’t have been at the top.
It's an interesting question whether a person in his position has a right to commit suicide.
No, not really, that doesn't seem like an interesting question at all. Can you convince me otherwise? It seems obvious to me that while a right to commit suicide might exist typically, somebody imprisoned is obviously not entitled to it. We restrict many rights when we imprison people, and I see no reason why the 'right to commit suicide' should not be one of them. Allowing such a man to kill himself denies his victi…
When I say "right", I don't mean what's currently granted to him by our Rube Goldberg justice system, I mean the inalienable rights of any sentient being. I've met people who think you should be able to punch out any time regardless of your situation, people who think you're responsible to get your affairs in order first, people who think it's a sin regardless, etc. This guy was in a unique situation because his estate isn't going to suffer (maybe they'll have to pay a lawyer to figure out who gets the sacks of cash) and even if he got acquitted somehow his reputation and ability to move in the circles he's accustomed to are destroyed. Would you agree that if he happened to be innocent he had a right to commit suicide? (I'll take your silence just now as a yes or at least a maybe. :b) So how about if he was guilty? Does he have the right to kill himself after conviction? How about if he donated $100,000,000 to an anti human trafficking charity, but dodged trial? Like I said, it's an interesting, nuanced question.
Heartbreaking, but at this point it does not really surprise that people of highly regarded intellect and achievement indulge in such horrible practices while most people around them turn a blind eye. On the other hand we should be wondering if our black and white view of the subject and all the rhetoric about "monsters" only helps promote silence. I believe humanizing the evildoers keeps the rest of humans aware that they too can be evildoers and perhaps backtrack and speak out more easily when they are on the fence.
Ok but by looking out for yourself it’s typically and socially accepted and expected you’re not going to do grievous direct harm to other parties.
To the ultra-rich, "other parties" are other ultra-rich people. Everyone else is just an insect. I mean that in the most visceral way possible, the ultra-rich view us with contempt. edit: This is why Bernie Madoff went to prison and why basically no one went to jail over the 2008 GFC. Madoff stole from his own social class, which is a big no-no.
Madoff stole from his own social class, which is a big no-no.
I don’t think that analysis tells the whole story. Elizabeth Holmes got away with a slapped wrist despite defrauding some very, very powerful people.
Whereas Shkreli got jail despite returning every penny to his investors.
How does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.
'suicide watch' generally means that someone checks your cell more frequently looking for signs that you're working on a way to kill yourself, not that you're constantly monitored. That's expensive.
How does a guy on suicide watch kill himself? This is a massive failure of Justice.
Some relevant into: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_watch
I was surprised to learn that it's often periodic, not continuous. There is probably one guard on duty at most for a given cell, and when they go use the rest-room, there may be no-one watching