Live data from Hacker News

FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

thehill.com

181–190 of 417 posts

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#181
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why don't they decap the chip and go in with an electron microscope? Has that type of exploit ever been successfully used against modern devices, or is it only a theoretical vulnerability?

It's a perfectly feasible exploit to extract 64, 256 or 512GB of strongly encrypted data.

Is there documentation for someone having actually done this on a modern iPhone?

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is that millions of Americans feel so strongly about gun ownership that they would rather be felons (and 'molon labe' their guns) than give them up.

Am I the only one who finds the use of "molon labe" farcical? I mean, the Persians did come and take them and killed the entire Spartan force in the process.

[deleted]

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking of mass shooting 2019/247, not mass shooting 2019/248. (Yes, we're up to more than one a day on average now) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_th...

This list gives me shivers...is the USA a scary, uncivilized country?

The replies to this are baffling. Of course not. It’s a huge, incredibly diverse and heterogeneous country of ~300 million people.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#184
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why don't they decap the chip and go in with an electron microscope? Has that type of exploit ever been successfully used against modern devices, or is it only a theoretical vulnerability?

Because it’s highly unlikely to work in the first place, not to mention likely cost as much as their annual operating budget.

Mostly the former. There’s nothing expensive about decapping a chip and tossing it under an electron microscope.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#185
post #116

We (HN commenters) all know that the demonization of encryption is bullshit. What we need to do is to figure out how to communicate that effectively to the public.

Just dig up old cold-war era movies and propaganda showcasing the Stasi and secret police, and preface it with "this, but on a computer.".

Unfortunately, the public response to this will be "Do you not support law enforcement, who risk their lives for our safety?" Sometimes it feels like we've elevated the common cop to a superhuman status.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#186
post #52

Is the American government position “Guns don’t kill people, encryption kills people”, or am I just combining the personal opinions of a bunch of unrelated people who work for the government?

Whatever happens, let's hope we never begin encrypting our video games.

Too late for that. DRM has been a thing in video games for a long time.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#187
post #49

> Attorney General William Barr said in a speech last month that encrypted messaging services allow "criminals to operate with impunity." The cost of encryption is “ultimately measured in a mounting number of victims — men, women and children who are the victims of crimes, crimes that could have been prevented if law enforcement had been given lawful access to encrypted evidence," This disgraceful, emotionally manipu…

This guy's (now deceased) sister drove him to the location. So she was in on it, too. (Why she's not included as a perpetrator in discussions about this event is odd.)

I'm sure he left evidence that goes well beyond his own phone if he was planning and plotting with others. They should have no trouble piecing this together with or without his phone.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they use the official definition of the term "mass shooting", as it was adopted after 2013 by the US congress, which defines it as a shooting with 3 or more victims. Is this your citation for the 2013 US Congress definition? (because I don't think it says what you seem to think it says). https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ265/PLAW-112publ265.p... If not, please provide your citation so that I can read it and re…

Wikipedia has an extra page on that, which I took as the basis of my comment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shooting#Definitions To quote: " The term was originally defined as the murder of four or more people with no cooling-off period[1][5] but redefined by Congress in 2013 as being murder of three or more people." Not only that, at the risk of repeating myself, the page you criticize as being "disingenuous" c…

The term that you're quoting the US Congress definition of is "mass killing".

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#189
post #49

> Attorney General William Barr said in a speech last month that encrypted messaging services allow "criminals to operate with impunity." The cost of encryption is “ultimately measured in a mounting number of victims — men, women and children who are the victims of crimes, crimes that could have been prevented if law enforcement had been given lawful access to encrypted evidence," This disgraceful, emotionally manipu…

> it is, however, harder to automate If Apple does not give you the tools to decrypt messages on their phones, doesn't that make it "impossible" to automate, where automate is defined as any version of "decrypting the data on the phone"?

One thing to keep in mind is that really only two things Apple can do. The first is to release a modified and signed version of iOS to LE agencies that has any timeouts removed to allow them to try to bruteforce the passcode locks. If a user uses a significantly long password instead of a passcode, this becomes way less effective.

The second thing is to log iMessage data on the server-side (since it has to be decrypted at some point). This would allow them to produce it, but would miss any apps installed on the phone used for alternative communication.

I don't like to see this so much as Apple refusing but there really isn't a way for Apple to enable easy full access without a backdoor, which is an unrealistic expectation.

Re: FBI tells lawmakers it can't access Dayton gunman's phone

#190
post #49

> Attorney General William Barr said in a speech last month that encrypted messaging services allow "criminals to operate with impunity." The cost of encryption is “ultimately measured in a mounting number of victims — men, women and children who are the victims of crimes, crimes that could have been prevented if law enforcement had been given lawful access to encrypted evidence," This disgraceful, emotionally manipu…

This guy's (now deceased) sister drove him to the location. So she was in on it, too. (Why she's not included as a perpetrator in discussions about this event is odd.) I'm sure he left evidence that goes well beyond his own phone if he was planning and plotting with others. They should have no trouble piecing this together with or without his phone.

Uh, the sister that was shot? What leads you to believe she was in on it?
Post reply on HN