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The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

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Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#761

Post by nkurz »

dang wrote: post #735
slavik81 wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure, but I would eat my hat if it's not the single largest voting block. The influence is not about praise or criticism, but what is easily understandable or what resonates with lived experience. There's a lot of different people on HN. I don't mean to say we're all the same. It's just that voting is a low-pass filter.

I was going to say it's for sure not the single largest voting block (but don't eat your hat! that can't be good for you). But I suppose it depends on how you define "block".

Inverting the question, do you think it would be possible to do accurate geographic clustering based solely on HN voting patterns (ignoring time of vote)? I'm doubtful. I think the problem with calling California the "single largest voting block" is that it's so far from homogenous. While California probably has a slightly different ratio of clusters than other states/countries, I suspect the clusters themselves are essentially non-geographic. It would likely be the biggest fiasco in the history of HN, but it would be wonderful to see what patterns could be pulled out of the private voting data if you were to make it available to researchers.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#763

Post by billfruit »

UnFleshedOne wrote: post #752
billfruit wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes may be for vocal speech, but for platforms build around written forms of speech like most online forums, how does that analogy hold since then the right of one to say a thing does not restrict another body's right to say a different thing at the same time. Generally freedom of speech issues arise largely for written word, than the spoken word.

This metaphor might be saved if you consider amount of (limited) public attention to be analogy to amplitude of sound. You can softly type in your niche forum all you want, but nobody will hear you if there is somebody else screaming into the twitter megaphone nearby.

But readers have a real choice and freedom on what to read, in that situation, what benefit does restrictions on writers bring?

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#764

Post by ufmace »

krapp wrote: post #750
ufmace wrote: post #747

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon me for stating a related opinion here - I tend to like to let my thoughts on these things churn around for a few days before expressing opinions rather than scream immediately about the obvious side. Something that bothers me about this whole trend of "deplatform everyone whose opinion I don't like" - once some person or group is near-universally deplatformed, they become sort of a boogeyman. You can attribute…

>(...) once some person or group is near-universally deplatformed, they become sort of a boogeyman. You can attribute any position you want to them, and they have no way to confirm or deny that they believe that. Except that hasn't happened, and doesn't happen. No person or group which has been deplatformed is incapable of communicating publicly, and most, if not all, have simply moved to the dark web. >You can claim…

> Hell, 8chan is already back online.

Where do you see this? I checked their Twitter and normal URL, and they sure seem to be currently down, and no indication that they've been up since the last set of deplatformings.

Regarding the rest of your post, I get the feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse in order to avoid the point. No thanks on debating with that.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#765

Post by celticmusic »

dang wrote: post #758
celticmusic wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19984428 you state that asking for sources is, and I quote: "a rather unsubstantive contribution". You are now telling me I should be citing a source. If I were being snarky I would ask if you would mind raising your signal/noise ratio as you did with the other poster. I mean, which is it? Is asking to source the claim unsubstantive or not? Is it only unsubsta…

A comment consisting of nothing but "got any sources for that?" is certainly "rather unsubstantive". But that is not why I replied to it. Had that been the only thing wrong with the comment, I wouldn't have. It was the following: > Edit: lol, downvotes for asking for sources? "Hacker" "news" is just full of gems! ... that caused me to reply as a moderator, because that breaks more than one of the site guidelines, as…

and now you've chosen to be unfair. I don't have access to the original comment, something you know, yet you accuse me of distorting facts. You've also lumped me in with the other poster as if we're the same person or the same group.

The only thing we have in common is not really liking your work as a moderator, and the way it's stifled discourse on HN. You have to go to other places for that, I mostly use HN as a news source.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#766

Post by celticmusic »

Spectral wrote: post #753
celticmusic wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19984428 you state that asking for sources is, and I quote: "a rather unsubstantive contribution". You are now telling me I should be citing a source. If I were being snarky I would ask if you would mind raising your signal/noise ratio as you did with the other poster. I mean, which is it? Is asking to source the claim unsubstantive or not? Is it only unsubsta…

A comment like "got any sources for that?" without adding additional context is low effort and inching towards trolling. Another difference is while the parent post of that person's comment it would be nice to include sources, it is about a general topic people can attempt to look for public sources themselves. Your comment you are accusing a forum user (dang) of something and there is no reasonable way to look for s…

no, asking for sources is legitimate, it's a crazy world you live in where being asked to give a source for information is low value and/or low effort.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#767

Post by celticmusic »

dang wrote: post #758
celticmusic wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the other thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19984428 you state that asking for sources is, and I quote: "a rather unsubstantive contribution". You are now telling me I should be citing a source. If I were being snarky I would ask if you would mind raising your signal/noise ratio as you did with the other poster. I mean, which is it? Is asking to source the claim unsubstantive or not? Is it only unsubsta…

A comment consisting of nothing but "got any sources for that?" is certainly "rather unsubstantive". But that is not why I replied to it. Had that been the only thing wrong with the comment, I wouldn't have. It was the following: > Edit: lol, downvotes for asking for sources? "Hacker" "news" is just full of gems! ... that caused me to reply as a moderator, because that breaks more than one of the site guidelines, as…

also, since I forgot to address it in my other response.

asking for sources is not unsubstantive, not in the least. It's one of the most substantive things you can do, both as someone providing information, and as someone trying to evaluate the information being provided.

The fact that you've come to feel that asking for sources is less important than not making others feel uncomfortable goes a long way towards why I don't view HN as a place for decent discourse.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#768

Post by krapp »

ufmace wrote: post #764
krapp wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(...) once some person or group is near-universally deplatformed, they become sort of a boogeyman. You can attribute any position you want to them, and they have no way to confirm or deny that they believe that. Except that hasn't happened, and doesn't happen. No person or group which has been deplatformed is incapable of communicating publicly, and most, if not all, have simply moved to the dark web. >You can claim…

> Hell, 8chan is already back online. Where do you see this? I checked their Twitter and normal URL, and they sure seem to be currently down, and no indication that they've been up since the last set of deplatformings. Regarding the rest of your post, I get the feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse in order to avoid the point. No thanks on debating with that.

There was an HN post only yesterday about the community moving to the dark web[0,1]. Being "back online" doesn't necessarily mean returning to the same URL and host.

[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20656342

[1]https://www.thedailybeast.com/8chan-users-migrating-to-zeron...

>Regarding the rest of your post, I get the feeling that you're being intentionally obtuse in order to avoid the point.

And I get the feeling you were being intentionally hyperbolic in order to make a weak and poorly supported point seem stronger than it was, by appealing to fear and cynicism rather than data.

You're probably right that further discussion wouldn't be productive, though.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#769

Post by dang »

celticmusic wrote: post #765
dang wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A comment consisting of nothing but "got any sources for that?" is certainly "rather unsubstantive". But that is not why I replied to it. Had that been the only thing wrong with the comment, I wouldn't have. It was the following: > Edit: lol, downvotes for asking for sources? "Hacker" "news" is just full of gems! ... that caused me to reply as a moderator, because that breaks more than one of the site guidelines, as…

and now you've chosen to be unfair. I don't have access to the original comment, something you know, yet you accuse me of distorting facts. You've also lumped me in with the other poster as if we're the same person or the same group. The only thing we have in common is not really liking your work as a moderator, and the way it's stifled discourse on HN. You have to go to other places for that, I mostly use HN as a ne…

By original comment I mean https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19984428, the one you linked to upthread. I just clicked on it like everyone else.

Re: The Lonely Work of Moderating Hacker News

#770

Post by dang »

celticmusic wrote: post #767
dang wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A comment consisting of nothing but "got any sources for that?" is certainly "rather unsubstantive". But that is not why I replied to it. Had that been the only thing wrong with the comment, I wouldn't have. It was the following: > Edit: lol, downvotes for asking for sources? "Hacker" "news" is just full of gems! ... that caused me to reply as a moderator, because that breaks more than one of the site guidelines, as…

also, since I forgot to address it in my other response. asking for sources is not unsubstantive, not in the least. It's one of the most substantive things you can do, both as someone providing information, and as someone trying to evaluate the information being provided. The fact that you've come to feel that asking for sources is less important than not making others feel uncomfortable goes a long way towards why I…

I didn't say any of those things. I'm afraid we're going in circles now.
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