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Who Owns Huawei?

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Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#111

Post by bitL »

LegitShady wrote: post #96
bitL wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it more like "if you try to subvert current power and install your own puppets, all using money you stole with the help of current power"? I think in China they shot such people. In US/EU that would land such person on a few blacklists instead and certain portions of business would be hard to do.

They might become secretary of state tho

If they win; in the aforementioned example that person lost. I never understood why should I feel any sympathies to either crook just because certain powers used them for their own purposes.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#112

Post by microcolonel »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

In short, China is an advanced fascist state, with total integration of industrial success into the state (but privatized industrial failure).

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#113

Post by steve19 »

chubbyrabbit wrote: post #29
davidu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of the legal ownership structure (I believe the SSRN perspective), it is effectively "state directed when needed." That's not a xenophobic perspective, that's a reality of being a company in China and it'd be hard for someone to push back on that based on the last 20 years of game film for Internet related businesses in China.

> state directed when needed Isn't it the same in here in the US? The president said "hey companies, you cannot trade with Huawei" and every company has to follow. My point is every government has some degree of influence on their companies. How much is another question. However in my opinion Huawei cannot be as innovative as they are with as much influence from their government as people here often suggest.

Given that most news media, and many CEOs, in the country oppose the President, with impunity, it is hard to argue the government has the same level of control.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#114

Post by xster »

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

> most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business

So it seems like the whole comment is a repackaging and a commentary on someone else's opinion. I think it's an interesting thought exercise but it's also hard to derive what should one take away from this after reading.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#115

Post by yummypaint »

all_usernames wrote: post #57
smacktoward wrote: post #23

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

Convince me this is any different in America.

If anything it's so much the opposite in the US that it's a problem. Private interests calling the shots and writing their own laws to the detriment of the country has become standard procedure. The supreme court effectively legalized all but "quid pro quo" corruption a few years ago. The US military industrial complex has become so full of rent seeking entities its a wonder anything is successfully developed anymore. Look at the history of the f-35, it's a clear example of the sunk cost fallacy being weaponized against the strategic interests of the country.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#116

Post by xster »

> • We know nothing about the internal governance procedures of the trade union committee. We do not know who the committee members or other trade union leaders are, or how they are selected.

Well Huawei is pretty specific about the internal governance procedures of the trade union committee, who the committee members or other trade union leaders are, and how they are selected. https://imgur.com/a/mEFkgna

It obviously doesn't mean that anyone should believe them. But for a journal piece to say "We know nothing" rather than "There are no means of independently verifying Huawei's claim" make it hard to take them seriously scientifically.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#117

Post by AFascistWorld »

jewelry wrote: post #44
PenguinCoder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one absolutely put Tencent on the same level. One is software and user espionage and the other is hardware. Same coin.

As a Chinese lived in mainland China for 20 years, gotta say all you guys are overestimating the authoritarian.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/jailed-for-a-text-chinas-censor...

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#118

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

steve19 wrote: post #110
SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question of who owns a company is often open to interpretation. For example, which of the following is correct? * Mark Zuckerberg owns ~25% of Facebook, because he owns ~25% of the outstanding shares. * Mark Zuckerberg owns ~50% of Facebook, because he has a lot of special shares that end up giving him ~50% of the shareholder votes. * Mark Zuckerberg owns Facebook in totality, because he runs the company and ther…

Zuck could be successfully sued if he acted in a way that obviously enriched himself at the expense of other shareholders. The court does not recognise that he owns the entire company, therefor he does not.

And that's probably the right way to look at it in most contexts. But if there were a controversy about whether Zuckerberg is using Facebook to spy on people, it would be a really silly deflection for him to say "I think you'll find that's impossible because Facebook is owned by the American people".

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#119

Post by magpi3 »

eschaton wrote: post #58
jewelry wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Chinese lived in mainland China for 20 years, gotta say all you guys are overestimating the authoritarian.

Nah. There are literally historical and current events you’re not allowed to talk about in China without being arrested and charged with a crime or even disappeared. That’s not an overestimation, that’s the very definition of authoritarian.

As someone who just came from China after living there for nine months, I think the better way to put it is this: you can talk about whatever you want, but if you make an effort to organize, initiate, or participate in a public discussion concerning a taboo topic, then you are putting yourself at risk.

It's the appearance of an organizing that is really taboo. Of course please take my opinion with a grain of salt. I am a foreigner who was there less than a year.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#120

Post by tthhuyid »

jjeaff wrote: post #108
all_usernames wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convince me this is any different in America.

It's just not. Look at Apple's fight with the government over unlocking the iPhone as a recent example. Can you imagine a company is Russia or China fighting like that to keep secrets away?

Didn’t Snowden reveal otherwise?

That if the government really wanted the information, the could just send a National Security Letter using Secret Courts.

Aren’t the fates of Lavabit and MCI demonstrations of that power?

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