Who Owns Huawei? • Hacker News Board

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#101

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #26

Not necessarily about China specifically, but why is corporate ownership so hard in general to deduce? Is it the case that public, queryable records simply do not exist, or they do exist but they require, say, manual steps to process through?

The question of who owns a company is often open to interpretation. For example, which of the following is correct?

* Mark Zuckerberg owns ~25% of Facebook, because he owns ~25% of the outstanding shares.

* Mark Zuckerberg owns ~50% of Facebook, because he has a lot of special shares that end up giving him ~50% of the shareholder votes.

* Mark Zuckerberg owns Facebook in totality, because he runs the company and there’s no mechanism for anyone to force him out.

In this particular case, the authors and Huawei seem to agree about what’s on paper. The authors just don’t think that the structure Huawei calls “worker ownership” allows workers to actually decide what the company will do.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#102

Post by canada_dry » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

The transparent wall between the Chinese Communist party and Huawei is clearly apparent at their response to Canada's actions against Meng Wanzhou (at the behest of USA).

China's extreme reaction (to the lawful action) is one that could be considered appropriate if Ms. Wanzhou wasn't an executive at a private corporation but a high ranking member of the government. China has responded as though it was an affront to the government.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#103

Post by baddox » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

smacktoward wrote: post #23

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

So it’s claimed true for Russia and China. So what are the odds that it turns out it’s true of the United States too, and maybe it’s just easier for me to accept the other accusations based on brief HN comments simply because I’m from the United States and I’m used to hearing Russia and China described as enemies or opponents of the US?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#104

Post by tech-historian » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

jewelry wrote: post #44

PenguinCoder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one absolutely put Tencent on the same level. One is software and user espionage and the other is hardware. Same coin.

As a Chinese lived in mainland China for 20 years, gotta say all you guys are overestimating the authoritarian.

Well, let's find out. Is this a true statement or not?

China has no freedom of speech, the press, religion, or assembly.

Also, is there a firewall that prevents you from accessing portions of the internet your government doesn't want you to see?

(I've never been to China but this is what seems to be reported.)

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#105

Post by Leader2light » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

China will be the ruin of us all. We were fools not to drop the bomb on China as Douglas MacArthur wanted.

They are growing so powerful and no one can stand against them. Hong Kong and Taiwan are both ultimately doomed to fall under Chinese control. I wonder how long until Africa is lost as well.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#106

Post by baddox » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

aristophenes wrote: post #98

all_usernames wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Convince me this is any different in America.

Seems like a lot of American companies have been working pretty hard to get around the sanctions to sell things to black listed Chinese companies. I would take that as pretty good evidence that American companies tend to be independent of the government. Also it's just pretty clear in general who has what interests in large American corporations. You can look at the chain of command up to the board of directors back…

Why wouldn’t American companies that were not independent from the government circumvent sanctions? That’s like saying that no one in the US government would have ever tried to circumvent US drug laws.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#107

Post by wolco » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:37 AM UTC

chubbyrabbit wrote: post #29

davidu wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of the legal ownership structure (I believe the SSRN perspective), it is effectively "state directed when needed." That's not a xenophobic perspective, that's a reality of being a company in China and it'd be hard for someone to push back on that based on the last 20 years of game film for Internet related businesses in China.

> state directed when needed Isn't it the same in here in the US? The president said "hey companies, you cannot trade with Huawei" and every company has to follow. My point is every government has some degree of influence on their companies. How much is another question. However in my opinion Huawei cannot be as innovative as they are with as much influence from their government as people here often suggest.

No, not the same at all. You cannot escape the Chinese government if you reach any kind of national success.

In the US you can fight the government and even side with the other party and try to get the president to lose their job.

Most know it's more profitable to ride a wave rather than to fight it.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#108

Post by jjeaff » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:38 AM UTC

all_usernames wrote: post #57

smacktoward wrote: post #23

I've heard a similar observation phrased slightly differently to describe Russia. If you're looking at a large Russian company, it goes, you're by definition looking at a company that has come to some kind of accommodation with the state -- because if they hadn't, the state would never have permitted them to get large.

Convince me this is any different in America.

It's just not. Look at Apple's fight with the government over unlocking the iPhone as a recent example. Can you imagine a company is Russia or China fighting like that to keep secrets away?

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#109

Post by WhitneyLand » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:41 AM UTC

kccqzy wrote: post #55

ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

Bigger corporations are indeed highly influenced if not outright owned by the state. But smaller businesses like these mom-and-pop shops and young startups certainly are not.

Thank you for posting. The OP was informative but a few more points of nuance like this are needed for good surface level understanding. For me it's useful to remember also that people can see the issues themselves differently there for cultural reasons.

As a side note, ironically it seems like going for short trips there can sometimes illuminate less than reading on the subject or just knowing someone here with a foot in each culture.

I don't hear much geopolitical talk during business meetings nor while buying things at the market. I recommend buying a friend in the US (or wherever you live) lunch a few times. It can be a highly time-efficient way to digest the big picture and also subtleties.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#110

Post by steve19 » Sat, Aug 10, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #101

oh_sigh wrote: post #26

Not necessarily about China specifically, but why is corporate ownership so hard in general to deduce? Is it the case that public, queryable records simply do not exist, or they do exist but they require, say, manual steps to process through?

The question of who owns a company is often open to interpretation. For example, which of the following is correct? * Mark Zuckerberg owns ~25% of Facebook, because he owns ~25% of the outstanding shares. * Mark Zuckerberg owns ~50% of Facebook, because he has a lot of special shares that end up giving him ~50% of the shareholder votes. * Mark Zuckerberg owns Facebook in totality, because he runs the company and ther…

Zuck could be successfully sued if he acted in a way that obviously enriched himself at the expense of other shareholders. The court does not recognise that he owns the entire company, therefor he does not.