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Who Owns Huawei?

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Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#41

Post by parsimo2010 »

abledon wrote: post #20
ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

would you classify Tencent on the same level as Huawei? And if so, does that mean most American youth are plugged into League Of Legends & Fortnite, a Chinese Surveillance system ? lol

Absolutely, but remember that they aren’t prevented from making money or conducting legitimate business just because they answer to the party officials. It’s not worthwhile to spy on teenagers wholesale, but they might pull the logs of a senator’s kid and we would never be the wiser. Also, owning some of Western popular culture is a decent geopolitical chip. Maybe it’s not as great as a nuke, but China can use popular video games to raise the next generation of kids to be more friendly to China. Just having the idea “I like the things that come out of China” in billions of brains can increase China’s share of global GDP and power.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#42

Post by _iyig »

kyllo wrote: post #15
ordinaryradical wrote: post #5

The most informative comment I’ve heard about Chinese business is that one needs to take the western conception of state / military / corporation and chuck them out the window. In essence these are all descriptive functions of the same entity in China, and any apparent separation is just that—apparent. I know some may reply that, for example, Lockheed effectively lives at this nexus also. It’s a good argument, and pr…

Marxists have a term for what you're describing: "state capitalism."

[flagged]

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#43

Post by thedudeabides5 »

tokai wrote: post #34
basq wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the term 'market socialism' used when describing China's system.

Market socialism, as fare as I'm aware, is defined by social ownership of the means of production. State capitalism would definitely be more appropriate to describe China. Especially in the marxist sense of the term. edit: I spoke with a Chinese student once, whom preferred the term dictatorial capitalism.

Xi calls it “socialism with Chinese characteristics”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_chara...

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#44

Post by jewelry »

PenguinCoder wrote: post #35
abledon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you classify Tencent on the same level as Huawei? And if so, does that mean most American youth are plugged into League Of Legends & Fortnite, a Chinese Surveillance system ? lol

I for one absolutely put Tencent on the same level. One is software and user espionage and the other is hardware. Same coin.

As a Chinese lived in mainland China for 20 years, gotta say all you guys are overestimating the authoritarian.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#45

Post by coldtea »

adventured wrote: post #39
avocado4 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok & Snapchat as well. Youths are more prone to getting radicalized too, which would be useful for the Party's geopolitical goals.

No. What's being floated in this thread is an absurd premise. By that premise, Norway controls Microsoft and Apple because they own part of the companies via their sovereign fund. Microsoft by itself of course is worth as much as Norway's entire fund. Snapchat is a publicly traded company, of which institutional money representing primarily US investors controls the dominant position in the company. Reddit is minorit…

Don't let arguments stand in the way of paranoia!

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#46

Post by coldtea »

Leary wrote: post #18

The sources of this paper are a bunch of random Chinese internet portal news. Is this considered academic research these days?

No, proper academic research also needs to cite a major scholarly source, like Wikipedia or Snopes.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#47

Post by coldtea »

partiallypro wrote: post #28
bdz wrote: post #9

The interesting thing that after the paper was published Huawei launched a campaign about this topic https://www.huawei.com/minisite/who-runs-huawei/en/ https://twitter.com/huawei/status/1157213584985751553

I've been a major critic of China and Huawei, especially as of late and I am served SO many clearly propaganda posts from Huawei now. It's insane.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

(Of course one could also think this is a Chinese puppet account speaking :-))

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#48

Post by adventured »

georgeecollins wrote: post #24
deepVoid wrote: post #16

> We know nothing about the internal governance procedures of the trade union committee. > We do not know who the committee members or other trade union leaders are, or how they are selected. > Given the public nature of trade unions in China, if the ownership stake of the trade union committee is genuine, and if the trade union and its committee function as trade unions generally function in China, then Huawei may b…

I disagree. I think you are used to Western Companies where the default is private ownership. All major Chinese companies began as state owned enterprises, and it is usually necessary to get investment from one to get a charter. So ostensibly private companies have a big state investment. Plus a trade union committee implies a government structure.

> All major Chinese companies began as state owned enterprises

Tencent, Baidu, Alibaba, Ctrip, JD.com and dozens of other major Chinese Internet companies did not begin as state owned enterprises.

They were all born during the prime years of Deng's philosophy holding sway over how the Chinese Government implemented economic policy. At one point Yahoo and Softbank owned about 80% of Alibaba as an example. The state had very little applied control over the company until the Xi era. China's system today is not the same as China's system in 1999. There was far more freedom in the system of 20 years ago, including in regards to corporate independence and speech online.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#49

Post by wallace_f »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #41
abledon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you classify Tencent on the same level as Huawei? And if so, does that mean most American youth are plugged into League Of Legends & Fortnite, a Chinese Surveillance system ? lol

Absolutely, but remember that they aren’t prevented from making money or conducting legitimate business just because they answer to the party officials. It’s not worthwhile to spy on teenagers wholesale, but they might pull the logs of a senator’s kid and we would never be the wiser. Also, owning some of Western popular culture is a decent geopolitical chip. Maybe it’s not as great as a nuke, but China can use popula…

Yea if you want to change the world, reach out to the next generation?

Remember all those other generations of people living in crazy societies with crazy ideas? People's values, behaviors and loyalties are basically imprinted on them during childhood. There is an Einstein quote where he talks about how 'most people can't even form their own opinions' and he is right.

Re: Who Owns Huawei?

#50

Post by coldtea »

georgeecollins wrote: post #24
deepVoid wrote: post #16

> We know nothing about the internal governance procedures of the trade union committee. > We do not know who the committee members or other trade union leaders are, or how they are selected. > Given the public nature of trade unions in China, if the ownership stake of the trade union committee is genuine, and if the trade union and its committee function as trade unions generally function in China, then Huawei may b…

I disagree. I think you are used to Western Companies where the default is private ownership. All major Chinese companies began as state owned enterprises, and it is usually necessary to get investment from one to get a charter. So ostensibly private companies have a big state investment. Plus a trade union committee implies a government structure.

>All major Chinese companies began as state owned enterprises

How come there are so many Chinese startup success stories then?

Those weren't "major companies" when they began...

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