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Home Chip Fab

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Re: Home Chip Fab

#61

Post by hollerith »

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #59
LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found another, more technical video, but couldn't recognize anything about process node/feature size. Anyways, here it is: [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hViCDab0E2A

Nikkei Article from December 2016 mentioning 0.8 micron, while aiming for 0.35 micron in 2018. So that's it, i guess? [1] https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Biotechnology/Minimal-fab-t... According to wikipedia the following CPUs were built with that: [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/350_nanometer Which i think of as more than sufficient to finally being able to implement something like SCED, WAM, CHERI, Applecore, wh…

That's cool, but your [1] seems to say that the machine uses a wafer 12.5 mm in diameter, which is is probably less area than any of the CPUs in your [2].

Re: Home Chip Fab

#62

Post by segfaultbuserr »

m0zg wrote: post #60
hammock wrote: post #20

Please don't dump your solvent down the drain like every Silicon Valley fab did back in the day, poisoning the entire region for decades to come. Just look up how many EPA Superfund sites are in the South Bay due to trichloroethylene, TCE contamination. Dispose of it properly and safely.

Speaking of which, does anyone know where (in the US) I can safely dispose of ferric chloride, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid? I used to etch my own boards years ago. And ever since then the spent stuff just sits in glass jars in a double plastic box in my garage. I don't etch anything anymore, and it's taking up space.

> safely dispose of ferric chloride, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid

The first step is easy: neutralize them with any base, such as baking soda. You don't need precision, just add a lot of it, and make sure the pH is close to 7 (or beyond, baking soda is not corrosive) at the end. After this step, the solution is no longer acidic or corrosive and much safer to handle.

Unfortunately, the next step is tricky. The solution is safe, but it still contains a lot of Cu+ ions, which is a heavy metal pollutant and poisonous.

On the other hand, if your sulfuric or hydrochloric acid is unused for etching anything (clean without those nasty ions), you are good to go, just dump them in the sink after you've neutralized them (test with pH paper) it's perfectly safe.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#63

Post by faissaloo »

m0zg wrote: post #60
hammock wrote: post #20

Please don't dump your solvent down the drain like every Silicon Valley fab did back in the day, poisoning the entire region for decades to come. Just look up how many EPA Superfund sites are in the South Bay due to trichloroethylene, TCE contamination. Dispose of it properly and safely.

Speaking of which, does anyone know where (in the US) I can safely dispose of ferric chloride, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid? I used to etch my own boards years ago. And ever since then the spent stuff just sits in glass jars in a double plastic box in my garage. I don't etch anything anymore, and it's taking up space.

There are usually reactions you can do to make them safe to dispose of in a regular manner, you should be able to find them with a decent amount of googling.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#64

Post by LargoLasskhyfv »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #45
spectramax wrote: post #6

I was at Semicon Japan last year in December and I learn about the coolest semiconductor company (non profit research organization) ever - MinimalFab [1]. There isn't much information their website but this [2] video explains what MinimalFab is about. Essentially, it is a cleanroom-free, modularized fab where each process step in a fab is like a little ATM machine. Miniaturization of complex fab processes is mind blo…

That is exceptionally cool. They have taken existing best practices in semiconductor fabs and migrated them to an interesting place. What is missing of course is what their feature sizes are and the part at the end where you cut the die and package it. It is those things that would define the set of things you could put on a single chip.

Have a look at

[1] https://bits-chips.nl/artikel/small-series-of-chips-profitab...

under "E-Beam" for 0.25-micron node and roadmap.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#65

Post by asynchronous13 »

m0zg wrote: post #60
hammock wrote: post #20

Please don't dump your solvent down the drain like every Silicon Valley fab did back in the day, poisoning the entire region for decades to come. Just look up how many EPA Superfund sites are in the South Bay due to trichloroethylene, TCE contamination. Dispose of it properly and safely.

Speaking of which, does anyone know where (in the US) I can safely dispose of ferric chloride, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid? I used to etch my own boards years ago. And ever since then the spent stuff just sits in glass jars in a double plastic box in my garage. I don't etch anything anymore, and it's taking up space.

pretty easy really. Add acid to water, then add baking soda to the acidic water until it's neutralized. (no more bubbling), then pour it down the sink with more water. Use appropriate precautions, gloves, goggles, well-ventilated area, etc. Once the acid is neutral, it won't hurt anything in the pipes.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#66

Post by faissaloo »

dymk wrote: post #51
amelius wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or ignorant parents.

A highschooler don't end up with a garage full of equipment like that unless their parents are already in the industry.

Nope, Zeloof got most of the stuff on Craigslist and Ebay. The big stuff is usually pretty old, and alot is hacked together (e-beam stepper) or custom built entirely (sputtering chamber, or whatever the plasma machine is called I forget).

Re: Home Chip Fab

#68

Post by muricula »

asynchronous13 wrote: post #65
m0zg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, does anyone know where (in the US) I can safely dispose of ferric chloride, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid? I used to etch my own boards years ago. And ever since then the spent stuff just sits in glass jars in a double plastic box in my garage. I don't etch anything anymore, and it's taking up space.

pretty easy really. Add acid to water, then add baking soda to the acidic water until it's neutralized. (no more bubbling), then pour it down the sink with more water. Use appropriate precautions, gloves, goggles, well-ventilated area, etc. Once the acid is neutral, it won't hurt anything in the pipes.

The concern probably isn't the acidity, but the heavy metals and other toxins in the solutions. Pouring tpxins down the drain isn't a good idea.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#69

Post by CodiePetersen »

Wow, very cool. I've been wanting to get into hardware for a while now. Well just as long as I have been in programming to be honest which is about 10 years or so now. So as the useful things I can learn start petering off in programming for me I think I will be diving into hardware as a hobby. I have been doing some robot stuff with me niece, but not as much as I would like. But this article and spectramax's comment I think has kind of warmed that little ember of curiosity in it again.

Thanks.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#70

Post by segfaultbuserr »

asynchronous13 wrote: post #65
m0zg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of which, does anyone know where (in the US) I can safely dispose of ferric chloride, sulfuric acid, and hydrochloric acid? I used to etch my own boards years ago. And ever since then the spent stuff just sits in glass jars in a double plastic box in my garage. I don't etch anything anymore, and it's taking up space.

pretty easy really. Add acid to water, then add baking soda to the acidic water until it's neutralized. (no more bubbling), then pour it down the sink with more water. Use appropriate precautions, gloves, goggles, well-ventilated area, etc. Once the acid is neutral, it won't hurt anything in the pipes.

But is it acceptable to dump wastewater with Cu+/Cl- ions inside? I've read that according to some regulations in some areas, they are considered pollutants and should not be dumped directly to the drainage.

Or is it something you can just ignore, because at the end of the day everything goes to a wastewater treatment plant, and your volume/concentration is too low to be considered hazardous, and actually not more harmful than the wastewater of commercial chemical cleaners, and well within the wastewater processing capabilities for small volumes?

Can anyone give an authoritative answer to this question?

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