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Home Chip Fab

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Re: Home Chip Fab

#21

Post by marcosdumay »

bogomipz wrote: post #17
Kirby64 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're referring to the fact that the edges aren't really sharp and are kind of 'soft', right? Like, everything isn't 90 degree angles and is kinda rippley in places? If so, that's not an SEM issue, that's just what it looks like. Photo exposure by it's very nature doesn't edge things 100% properly, diffraction or tiny misalignments causes stuff to end up being 'soft'. Also, keep in mind that was from 1997. Fab tech…

>"You're referring to the fact that the edges aren't really sharp and are kind of 'soft', right? Like, everything isn't 90 degree angles and is kinda rippley in places?" Yes to both of these questions. "Soft" is probably a better way to articulate this, thanks. I'm not following the explanation of this being caused by photography however. Is this specific to photography at this scale? >"I imagine if you were to make…

> Is this specific to photography at this scale?

Yes. A smaller scale makes it worse, a larger scale makes it better.

If you reduce things enough, everything will become so blurred that you won't be able to see anything (that's why we can't photograph atoms using visible light), and if you make things large enough your camera will become the bottleneck so a very small amount of blur is added to any object, whatever the size.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#22

Post by SkyPuncher »

hammock wrote: post #20

Please don't dump your solvent down the drain like every Silicon Valley fab did back in the day, poisoning the entire region for decades to come. Just look up how many EPA Superfund sites are in the South Bay due to trichloroethylene, TCE contamination. Dispose of it properly and safely.

> Dispose of it properly and safely.

I see a lot of people say this, but I rarely see any actionable advice.

How does your average residential person find and dispose of chemicals like this? Seems like most people end up pouring them down the drain simply because they don't know how to actually find a better means of disposing them.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#23

Post by henryfjordan »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #22
hammock wrote: post #20

Please don't dump your solvent down the drain like every Silicon Valley fab did back in the day, poisoning the entire region for decades to come. Just look up how many EPA Superfund sites are in the South Bay due to trichloroethylene, TCE contamination. Dispose of it properly and safely.

> Dispose of it properly and safely. I see a lot of people say this, but I rarely see any actionable advice. How does your average residential person find and dispose of chemicals like this? Seems like most people end up pouring them down the drain simply because they don't know how to actually find a better means of disposing them.

A person doesn't get a pass on things like this because other people didn't spoon-feed them the info. Read the law, call the EPA, google it.

Ultimately if you want to use chemicals that have the potential to poison our shared environment you need to be willing to do the legwork to be confident that you are doing things responsibly.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#24

Post by esmi »

phkahler wrote: post #16

Is this kind of thing possible with less toxic chemistry?

No. When this article was previously posted there was an interesting thread on this topic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16955549

Edit: I should mention that one can make a rectifier using household chemicals. Caution is still warranted of course.

http://www.hpfriedrichs.com/radioroom/cu-diode/rr-cu-diode.h...

Re: Home Chip Fab

#26

Post by __jal »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #22
hammock wrote: post #20

Please don't dump your solvent down the drain like every Silicon Valley fab did back in the day, poisoning the entire region for decades to come. Just look up how many EPA Superfund sites are in the South Bay due to trichloroethylene, TCE contamination. Dispose of it properly and safely.

> Dispose of it properly and safely. I see a lot of people say this, but I rarely see any actionable advice. How does your average residential person find and dispose of chemicals like this? Seems like most people end up pouring them down the drain simply because they don't know how to actually find a better means of disposing them.

I don't know, but if I were doing this, I'd find out. Call your residential waste management company and ask them who handles commercial hazmat in the area, if you can't think of any other way to start.

If you're planning out your own home fab, you're researching a bunch of other things and giving serious thought to a lot of nontrivial problems. Choosing to ignore waste disposal is irresponsible, and you deserve any legal hassle you run in to.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#28

Post by otakucode »

What happens to old fab tech? A few years ago I tried searching around online to see if there was anywhere you could buy decommissioned machinery for fabricating NAND flash, but I couldn't find anything or any sign that such things ever really come up for sale. Has anyone worked in a fab or otherwise have some idea of what happens to the stuff that worked at larger process sizes?

Re: Home Chip Fab

#29

Post by furi »

cr0sh wrote: post #18

This is all very interesting and amazing, and kudos to the person for being able to do this - but I think we need to take a step back here a bit; this doesn't look like something that "just anybody" could replicate. For one, this person seems to have some very advanced knowledge of some very advanced processes - I am not even sure where one would gain such knowledge from easily, though they do seem to have access to…

You're overhyping the knowledge a bit. It can't have been gathered over that great a span of time because he was only in his late teens when he did this. Also I've been able to work out most of it myself over a period of about a year using the book "Introduction to Semiconductor Manufacturing Technology" by Hong Xiao for general process layout (what steps are necessary, in what order, with what chemicals, etc.) and a scattering of papers, chemical datasheets and ResearchGate discussions for the specific parameters to use.

If anybody would like to get into this kind of thing I highly recommend that book, it's very approachable for somebody coming from computing without a particular semiconductor/chemistry/material science background.

Re: Home Chip Fab

#30

Post by ngold »

bobcostas55 wrote: post #27

Once space exploration really gets going, mobile chip fabrication is gonna be a pretty big deal.

Good point. The space race would have massive benefits for us on earth in nanofabrication. Just one more bonus point for space.
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