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Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

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Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#241

Post by moate »

zepto wrote: post #157
moate wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to set the record straight? What's actually going on if not what they're presenting? They're making an assumption about intent. Unless you can prove you're part of the Apple team responsible for this hardware behavior, you're just going to be doing the same.

The batteries are not locked, and off-brand replacements work perfectly. There is no impediment whatsoever to repair here. iFixit are therefore making a misstatement. The only thing Apple is doing is not making assessments about the condition of off-brand replacements. This is pretty obvious and expected behavior. iFixit are using a misrepresentation of this to generate publicity using the same narrative as they alwa…

But they're doing this with their own branded replacements. If I put an actual apple battery into my iPhone but don't do it through apple's store, this behavior is what happens.

This is akin to my check engine light always being on whenever any mechanic makes repairs to my car. Yes, Kia is "protecting themselves from liability of damages by 3rd party behavior" but they're also creating a UX problem for me.

As the end user: this is stupid, and I don't like it, and it seems like a choice not a need on the company's part.

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#242

Post by zepto »

moate wrote: post #241
zepto wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The batteries are not locked, and off-brand replacements work perfectly. There is no impediment whatsoever to repair here. iFixit are therefore making a misstatement. The only thing Apple is doing is not making assessments about the condition of off-brand replacements. This is pretty obvious and expected behavior. iFixit are using a misrepresentation of this to generate publicity using the same narrative as they alwa…

But they're doing this with their own branded replacements. If I put an actual apple battery into my iPhone but don't do it through apple's store, this behavior is what happens. This is akin to my check engine light always being on whenever any mechanic makes repairs to my car. Yes, Kia is "protecting themselves from liability of damages by 3rd party behavior" but they're also creating a UX problem for me. As the end…

Batteries have a relatively short shelf life, so even an original apple branded battery can be a scam if it’s old stock.

I have personally run into this when I replaced a battery myself back in the iPhone 4 era.

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#243

Post by logfromblammo »

zepto wrote: post #218
logfromblammo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say Apple is partially to blame for the replacement parts market being shady, for three reasons: 1. You can't get genuine Apple replacement parts in such a way that the end-consumer can actually verify they are not counterfeits. 2. Apple charges an exorbitant brand premium for genuine Apple products. 3. Apple doesn't believe that unapproved persons are capable of repairing its devices correctly. If one could orde…

Batteries have serious shelf life issues. There would be nothing to prevent there being poorly stored batteries that are genuine being sold and causing the same issue.

Batteries fail on a predictable schedule. You can either design your whole battery-powered product to fail roughly when the intrinsic battery fails, or you can design the battery to be replaceable.

Apple is trying to have the cake, by designing a product with a longer except-for-the-battery service life, and eat it too, by making the battery intrinsic to the construction, and not easily replaceable. These are incompatible goals for product lifecycle. Either you make cheap garbage that may break before the battery fails, or you have to account for repairing or replacing a failed battery in a product you have not owned in any way ever since you sold it to the consumer.

The consumer-friendly way to go about this would be to offer OEM-blessed battery replacements by sanctioned professionals AND sell repair parts directly to anyone who wants to buy them AND publish specifications for 3rd-party replacement batteries AND publish instructions on how to replace the battery AND write your software to detect and report incorrect installation or out-of-spec replacement parts, while also actually accepting any repair done correctly with in-spec parts without complaint.

The "issue" is that the current software is essentially saying, "we know everyone in the world who can properly replace an Apple battery, and whoever it was that replaced this battery wasn't one of them". Rather than offload the cost of their brand protection scheme onto the consumers, they could write their word trademark and mfg date to the chip in the battery, read it from the phone to report as part of battery health, and prosecute battery-counterfeiters in civil court, on their own dime, rather than using some bullshit para-DRM scheme.

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#244

Post by joshypants »

briandear wrote: post #135
joshypants wrote: post #37

Apple makes increasingly disappointing products. I recently was looking at replacing my iPhone 7 Plus, but around $900 would get the next baseline model, for no real tangible benefits, and some tangible downsides like no zoom lens and being forced to use the face scanning. Sorry, I'll replace my battery and cracked screen and wait a couple more years, thanks.

You aren’t forced to use face scanning.

And why would enabling a typed passcode be an improvement over the touch id I currently enjoy on the 7 plus?

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#245

Post by joshypants »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #143
joshypants wrote: post #37

Apple makes increasingly disappointing products. I recently was looking at replacing my iPhone 7 Plus, but around $900 would get the next baseline model, for no real tangible benefits, and some tangible downsides like no zoom lens and being forced to use the face scanning. Sorry, I'll replace my battery and cracked screen and wait a couple more years, thanks.

You can disable FaceID and go with typed passcodes.

A typed passcode is a downgrade in convenience from the touch id I currently enjoy. This is my point.

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#246

Post by natch »

nesadi wrote: post #235
natch wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose humidity can also cause water damage. Humidity is basically caused by high levels of water moisture in the air. Which water moisture, as we know, moves in and out of liquid form as it condenses and evaporates, sometimes unnoticed in places we can’t see. Seems unfortunate that some environments are harmful to electronics, but what would you have them do, guarantee the product in absolutely any conditions?

If they're legally selling devices in these areas, then yes. I don't see why environment absolves them of any and all responsibility.

I think you should try doing what they do, but add on this warranty that fills the “responsibility” of covering all possible damage from all possible environments that can be found anywhere around the area... “the area” being the whole Earth, of course, since these devices are intended for mobile use globally.

Might as well step up and not shirk your obvious responsibility for covering impact events as well, since those occur fairly often in many everyday situations. Let us know how that works out for you.

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#247

Post by logfromblammo »

Nextgrid wrote: post #240
logfromblammo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clip bypass battery to the power/gnd pins while desoldering and resoldering. Read RAM image before desoldering. Write image to RAM after resoldering. For that matter, read RAM image from old battery and write it to new battery, no soldering required. Or MITM the connection between phone and battery, and the bypass device can pass-through battery health information while intercepting and responding to authentication-r…

What if the chip uses asymmetric cryptography for authentication with a private key stored in it, impossible to recover, just like a credit card? In this case it can’t be spoofed by intercepting the comma between the phone & chip, private key can’t be extracted, etc. Sure, a bypass battery is possible. The point here isn’t 100% security (which as you say is impossible), it’s to make the operation difficult enough tha…

Impossible?

Dissolve the chip casing in fuming nitric acid and use probe needles. The official pins are not the only way to interface with the silicon, when you have device-in-possession.

Use a timing attack. Find a collision.

It is very likely that the same private key is locked up inside every chip, and one reverse-engineer, probing one of them once, can compromise the key for all of the chips manufactured before their publication date, and probably would last until the OEM ran out of those chips, and then deprecated the key after some time with a software patch. The one-time cost would be worth it for any manufacturer of off-brand batteries.

The battery controller chip is not going to be an impenetrable security vault, in any case. The cost of parts is a factor, even for Apple.

Asymmetric keys don't work if the attacker is in possession of the private key, no matter how many padlocked boxes you put it in. The attacker has the key, and getting it out in usable form is a matter of time, not possibilities.

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#248

Post by 15155 »

natch wrote: post #246
nesadi wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're legally selling devices in these areas, then yes. I don't see why environment absolves them of any and all responsibility.

I think you should try doing what they do, but add on this warranty that fills the “responsibility” of covering all possible damage from all possible environments that can be found anywhere around the area... “the area” being the whole Earth, of course, since these devices are intended for mobile use globally. Might as well step up and not shirk your obvious responsibility for covering impact events as well, since th…

I don't think it's reasonable to support hardware that was taken up Everest or on some Antarctic expedition - actual, extreme circumstances.

I think it's entirely reasonable to support hardware sold in 100% humidity central Florida where Apple is licensed to do business (covered under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.)

Re: Apple Is Locking iPhone Batteries to Discourage Repair

#250

Post by privateSFacct »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #158
privateSFacct wrote: post #109

Despite all the HN comments, Apple's made an absolute killing and charges FAR FAR higher margins for their products in part because they design them so normal people don't get totally f'd over. And yes, the scam of a trash after market battery to make the iphone battery life look good is well known. And guess how many parents and grandparents then go to apple to "fix" something that has nothing to do with Apple? The…

Apple doesn't want their customers to get f'd over you say? You might want to check out Luis Rosmann's videos, a famous Apple repair geek who fixes for cheap the products Apple themselves misdiagnose[1] in order to rip off their customers[2]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7RXJP4mxCc // teenager's MacBook's display is not working correctly so Geniuses tell him he needs a new motherboard replacement while Luis d…

If Luis is putting in fake batteries and calling them real he is a scammer to. That's the topic here.

As to this claim that these examples are apple screwing over their customers - perhaps the frontline folks at a store can fix a certain set of issues, and if the machine looks dead (ie, no screen) they advise customer of potential cost and send it to a group better able to fix things?

I'm not that impressed with support I've gotten at other places selling laptops (walmart / target) but maybe apple really is the worst here.

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